On Aug 11, 7:32*pm, bildan wrote:
On Aug 10, 11:23*pm, Derek C wrote:





On Aug 10, 8:36*pm, bildan wrote:

On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:

On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:

On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:

On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:

As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).

If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?

I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.

Derek C

As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.

On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. *The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. *They had never touched
a glider before.

I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. *Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. *They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. *LEVEL was not applicable or important.

In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.

I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. *In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. *I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. *In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Obviously no crosswinds, gusts or thermals on that day? The ASK-21 has
plenty of mass and stability, so it is the best possible candidate for
this technique. May not work quite as well for many single seaters,
especially if carrying water ballast, or if you have a tug aircraft
that generates a lot of propwash (e.g PZL Wiga).

Derek C

Yes, there was a crosswind which is why it worked so well. *It works
even better with ballasted single seaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Would only work if the wing tip runner holds the downwind tip and runs
pretty fast before letting go. The aileron response of a fully water
ballasted glider can be pretty minimum until a good airspeed is
reached, or there is a good headwind to start with. It may be
necessary to hold the wings level for quite a few seconds before
starting the launch to allow the water to equilibrate in the tanks or
bags.

Derek C