"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Dave Kearton" wrote in
message ...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
|
| Disagree. If USSR would exist now Internet would be very well
| known and in use. There would be certainly some restrictions
| like those recently reported in China for instance which certainly
| cannot significantly stop free spread of information. Like
| a telephone for instance it is simply too important invention in
order
| anyone can ignore or ban it. BTW telephone was pretty well known
| in USSR as well as all other telecommunication technologies
| known in the world. However there is irony indeed that internet (US
invention)
| kills US propaganda media by free disrtibution of true info and true
| foreign public opinions on US politics in US itself.
|
| Michael



Whats really funny is that Micheal has neglected to mention how
paranoid the Soviet authorities were about technology.

Which technology? USSR was number 1 or number 2 in almost all
technology areas with only possible exception of computers where it was
number 3 or 4.


Information technology, as a member of a team who gave
a number of talks to various Soviet Ministries in 1988
I can assure you the USSR was not high on the list
of capability.

When and what exactly are you talking about?


Photocopiers and duplicating machines were rigidly
controlled and licensed lest people use them for publishing
counter revolutionary documents and the Fax machines
had them in a real tizzy since with the technology available
the authorities had a hard time listening in and intercepting
fax communications.

Well partly true. photocopiers and faxes were not available
in shops for general public. Although it was available
in offices. I am not aware of anyone who wanted to copy
"counter revolutionary documents" at any time. Maybe a very few
so called dissidents which were never more than 200-300 for
all USSR. general public did not cared about any such
documents then and now. I do remmeber that when we wanted
to have copy of Bulgakov novel "Master and Margarite"
possible but very difficult to find in a shop we (10 students)
just typed it and printed in an office printer. As for photocopiers
and faxes, I think it was not available in the shops
simply because at that time it was too big and expansive
mashines and given rather low incomes of population
there would no significant demand.


Strangely every small club, scout troop and students union
in Britain had discovered a need for such equipment and
the cost was quite low. Of course it wasnt a crime here to
have an unlicensed copier.


It was not a crime in USSR as well. But at that time
soviet model of photocopier (huge and heavy, office
format) costed I think in the range of several
10000s of rubbles while average salary was in range
of a few 100s. Foreign cheap portable models were
not allowed for import. Who and why someone would
want to buy it? All this stuff was avaibale office
in big numbers.





Indeed it was the explosion in the
numbers of fax machines that was made possible by
Gotbachev's reforms that made organising resistance to the
communist coup of 1991 possible.

Hm... After all these years we do not so sure there was a "coup"
and "organising resistance". The faxes were already in big
numbers since many privat and state companies certainly had ones
for ages.


Not in 1988 they didnt, we had major problems getting permission
to install one in our Moscow office in 1998

Well. we are talking about 1991? My institute as far as I remmeber
always had a fax mashine. I have installed our first email system
in 1990 as far as I rememeber. At that time in Moscow almost every
computer belonging to my friends had a modem and email connection.
Should I remind you that at that time there was no WWW. And most
of western users were just at the same email level. I remmeber
there was a company offering telnet service but the costs were
high and we did not find any reasons to buy that. We simply had
no places to telnet.




In a real sense information technology was one of
the major factors that brought an end to the USSR.


I understand that television was different in the old USSR as well.


While we in the west would watch the television for entertainment - in
the
USSR, the TV watches you.


The reality of TV in the old USSR was more prosaic. It was
just plain boring. There were few decent arts programmes and
some opera/ballet which were Ok but for the most part it was
incredibly dull. They were quite creative when it came to ensuring
that people only listened to 'approved' radio stations as I recall.
They made really cheap radios that had only presets that were
tuned to the frequencies of government approved stations.

partly true. Although it was less boring than western TV cud
(particularly in US), in my taste certainly. There was lost of
sports, many good movies and arts and very little politics. Most
people was interesting in mostly their personal lifes, and nobody
was affraid of their future. Anyone could walk at any place of a
town and at any time of day or night.

You have to be joking. By 1988 things were easing but during
my first business trip to the USSR in 1974 people were VERY
careful about who they talked frankly to.

I think anyone must be VERY careful about who they talked frankly to.
But I know what you mean. if you are not a plain stupid you had
to quickly understand that the people who had job connected
to foreigners were rather different from the rest of us. It
was a sort of moscow mafia. It was profitable and very
difficult to get job. All these was not due to political
restrictions, even at that time nobody of them cared about
politics. They cared more what they could get from you.
You know what I mean, Keith. Right?



Totally diffrent atmosphere
as it is now in many places. BTW in my house now anyone can watch
any western station for very little fee. And what? Yes no demand
whatsoever. I know because a cable company worker came to ask if
we would like to subscribe and complained nobody wanted and
they probably would have to disconnect all this rubbish.


Ah a truly objective sample - NOT


Maybe not so. But russia still is the only county
I know where you can watch CNN only in foreigner
oriented hotels, and even not in each of it.

Michael

Keith