On Oct 26, 7:38*pm, kd6veb wrote:
On Oct 26, 5:37*pm, Ramy wrote:

On Oct 26, 10:46*am, kd6veb wrote:

Hi Gang
* Surely flying in a thermal with a gaggle of other gliders is
suicidal period. And what use is a Flarm in those conditions? I have a
Phoenix on order and am anticipating putting a PowerFlarm in it. Why?
Because the PowerFlarm has a PCAS function in addition to the Flarm
function and the PowerFlarm costs only a little more than a Zaon PCAS..
I do think the mandatory use of Flarm is a good idea for comps
especially if one can inexpensively rent a Flarm. But outside of comps
with the flying I do having a transponder is by far the most important
piece of safety equipment I have on board. A PCAS is also worth
having. Having a Flarm? It is a useless device until the use of Flarm
by the gliding community reaches critical mass (usage). That is
unlikely to happen here in the US for several years at best. And then
*Ramy wrote:

Dave, are you no longer flying to the Whites? Cause otherwise I am
sure you'll agree that in the area you are flying, other than near
Reno, the biggest risk of mid air collision is with another glider
running the White Mountains. On a good day, there can be over 20
gliders dolphine flying at 100 knots (200 knots closing speed) in a
1000 feet altitude band and within half a mile lateral, in both
directions.

Ramy
* I fly the Whites with the transponder on like almost all responsible
glider pilots do. I also have PCAS on so if there is another pilot
near me with a transponder on I know that. Flarm is technically better
but why would we from the Reno area buy one having a transponder and
PCAS? I think you are missing the point of this discussion. Another
device that will only respond to other glider pilots having a Flarm?
This will not make sense to a large number of pilots who also want
protection from GA. I have said this many times but for us the
transponder is the most important safety device with PCAS a useful add
on. Flarm is a distant ( let me repeat that - A DISTANT THIRD) - on
the safety list of devices. I am not saying it is useless but until
about 50% of the glider pilots in the region you fly use one its
affect is marginal at best. That said I am purchasing one as I don't
see much downside for me but if I really had to tbe serious about
expenditures it would be a distant third on my list of safety devices
- transponder (90%), PCAS (8%) and guess where Flarm would be.
Dave

PS1 How are we going to persuade our FOBs at Minden to make the major
modification to Flarm when the installation of PowerFlarm in their
existing gliders may be difficult to say the least. The conversion to
transponders has been difficult enough for them and for Minden
transponders are clearly superior to Flarm. Hitting a commercial jet
with 200 passengers is not an option!

PS2 I wish risk management was taught in schools in the US.

what about GA? What good is Flarm for GA? They are never going to use
it in the US. The FAA has another system in store for GA and
commercial aircraft.
Dave

Dave, are you no longer flying to the Whites? Cause otherwise I am
sure you'll agree that in the area you are flying, other than near
Reno, the biggest risk of mid air collision is with another glider
running the White Mountains. On a good day, there can be over 20
gliders dolphine flying at 100 knots (200 knots closing speed) in a
1000 feet altitude band and within half a mile lateral, in both
directions.

Ramy



It has been a few years since I've been on the Whites, but I've done
that enough times with a transponder and PCAS and with enough other
gliders all with different levels of transponder and PCAS equipage
that I can say its a helpful warning at times but also scary how
poorly it works as well when running at high speed close to the rocks
with lots of other gliders around. It's out little part of the
European Alps glider traffic problem relocated to sunny California.
You can be getting PCAS alerts from gliders behind you and miss the
one coming head on at you until too late. The lack of directional
clues have you sweating if that new alert at exactly your altitude is
ahead or behind you - since as Ramy points out everybody often ends up
on the same race track . There are also locations where you round an
obstruction and then are surprised by a glider coming the other way
but you never say its transponder because you did not have line of
sight. Flarm will have a similar issue with only line of sight
coverage but the huge difference is that as soon as you get line of
sight you get immediate (~ 1 sec) information including direction to
any threat and the threat assessment is much more sophisticated. It
should be no surprise that PCAS has problems in this type scenario, it
is just not really intended for this - something Flarm is used for
widely in Europe.

Dave I assume you are trolling here a bit for fun since you've tried
to stir up similar discussions on other forums and then made clear you
already have decided to buy a PowerFLARM. You guys should be working
on a bulk-buy for PowerFLARM out of Minden and see how much real
interest there is there. A significant number of the SF Bay Area
pilots who do serous XC out of the Reno/Miden/Truckee area have
committed to purchase PowerFLARM arleady and its early days yet -- so
far I count around 15 committed purchases from SF Bay Area/Central
Valley pilots who fly serious XC out of the Reno/Minden/Truckee area
during summer - and almost every one to a man has a transponder
already (I am aware of one who does not -- and he knows who he is and
he plans to fix that as well :-)). I don't have a feel for local
Minden/Truckee pilot purchase plans -- but I hope to see enough of you
guys at this Saturday's PASCO saftey seminar that we can talk about it
live.

Regards


Darryl