Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:51:38 +0000, Sparkorama wrote:

Hagbard Celine;756949 Wrote:
That's a nice and diverse fleet you have there! As to getting your own
glider, in that price range you can look at several older glass
standard class ships. In this group I include: Schempp-Hirth Standard
Cirrus
Schleicher ASW-15 / ASW-15B
Glasflugel 201 / 201B Standard Libelle Rolladen-Schneider LS-1C / LS-1D
SZD Standard Jantar 1

They all have their strengths and weaknesses, to me none of the
weaknesses would be deal breakers. If you look at Paul Bickles "Polars
Of Eight" and Richard Johnsons flight test evaluations you'll find that
they all have very (very) similar performance. At this point the
variation in the condition of an individual glider would probably
account for a greater performance difference than any that might be
inherent in the design.

You might also find an LS-1F or DG-100 in this price range. If you're
alright with the heavier rigging an Open Cirrus would be an option too.
I don't know enough about the Phoebus B and C to offer any advice on
their flying qualities and parts support. Maybe some owners can weigh
in? A Grob 102 Astir CS or CS-77 would probably fall into this price
range too. The Grobs are a bit sluggish in terms of control response
and they are more difficult to rig than they need to be (a Libelle type
rigging tool would make them much easier to assemble) but they are
roomy and have decent performance. I've heard differing experiences
when it comes to parts support. We needed a new rudder for our club's
single Grob and some parts for the airbrake system a few years ago and
I got them from Linder with no trouble but I've also talked to people
who haven't been as lucky.

The Soaring Magazine Sailplane Directory issue has a summary by Derek
Piggott of these gliders and many others that could be helpful. He
offers a more in-depth evaluation of a number of gliders in "Gliding
Safety" if you can find a copy.

If you can find any obliging owners, try them on for size. Your height,
weight and leg/torso proportions will probably rule some of them out
for you. (example: I had enough headroom and fit alright lengthwise in
the Libelle but still found it lacked shoulder room and felt too
cramped on the other hand I was comfortable in my clubs Standard Jantar
but I was one of the few who was, many said it didn't seem to be
designed for human beings!)

As I've owned an ASW-15B for five years I can give you some more
detailed information on that particular glider: roomier than a Libelle
but a bit more cramped than the L-33, very docile at low speeds and not
inclined to spin, quite powerful airbrakes, light ailerons (both in
terms of aerodynamic loads and system friction), a ridiculous amount of
rudder authority, although the gear handle is on the same side as the
airbrake handle there is little chance of confusing one for the other
because they are widely separated (when you look inside a 15 it's
pretty obvious it was designed as a fixed gear as per the standard
class regs of the time and then changed over to retractable as an
afterthought), the long one-piece removable canopy is a bit of a pain
as you really need someone to help close it for you before flight, it
has an all-flying tail but it was properly designed so it isn't twitchy
at all, lastly I've found that when I've needed any parts, TN's or
general advice John Murry at Eastern Sailplane has been extremely
helpful. It's also pretty easy to rig. I've shared the field with two
Libelle owners and I usually get the 15 together and ready to fly
quicker than they do...

Since you mentioned the IS-29 I was wondering if you were considering
getting a metal ship and tying it down outside? If I was in this
situation I would seriously consider the Schweizer 1-35 myself.
I was only considering the IS-29 since there is one for sale and
originally I was thinking that a metal ship would be easier to maintain
and somewhat bulletproof. As of now, I'm not sure if those are correct
assumptions.

Each different construction method has its own gotchas:

- metal: some years ago there was a very cheap Pilatus B4 on eBay,
but in the pictures you could easily see corrosion round the rivets
that attach the cockpit floor to the sides. Judging by the colour the
rivets were steel....

- wood: since you can't see the wing interior, you'll need to take the
state of the glue joints on trust or strip and recover the wings and
tail.

- glass: damage can be near invisible if it was finished carefully after
repairs, so a NDH claim has to be believed unless/until you do a weight
& balance as part of your pre-purchase inspection.


Interesting that "sparkorama" hasn't identified himself - which is
annoying to me because I've probably been in the back seat while he was
flying :-). In any case, He said "I'll be putting some winter flying
time in and I'm considering buying my first glider once I'm back to
comfortable solos and my private license.". So, take your time while you
get to solo and license - there's no need to rush. In any case, I
heartily endorse Juan's comment that you fly the heck out of the 1-34,
L-33, and B4 while you sort out what it is that you want to do with the
glider (XC, acro, flag pole sitting?) while waiting for your glider to
come on the market. For many used glider buyers, it's probably not a
good idea to look for a single glider because you may wait a looong time
for that glider to come around. Rather, you should decide on a range
gliders and buy the first (or second) one that comes up for sale that
meets your needs. BTW, George Waters has a glider that may fit your bill
:-).

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"