On 8/23/2011 11:39 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Hang in there, Cookie. It's refreshing to hear someone defend the
position of taking responsibility for one's self.

Folks who routinely do low passes are the same who would say, "Here,
hold my beer and watch this". You know who you are. I used to be one of
them until, one day, I realized everyone could watch me kill myself and,
maybe, someone else. There's a commercial operation I know of (and I
won't give any hints) that routinely does a low pass after every flight
with a *paying* customer in the front seat. They haven't killed anyone
*yet*...

Those of us who are concerned with safety will act accordingly and seek
the information we need. The others will simply nod their heads and then
ignore the message. The only way to make them safe is to ground them and
none of us have the authority nor the right to do that (unless they're
flying club equipment).


"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
...
On 8/23/2011 6:00 AM, Cookie wrote:
On Aug 23, 5:44 am, Mike
wrote:
On 8/22/2011 9:32 PM, Cookie wrote:





On Aug 22, 10:04 pm, Mike
wrote:
On 8/22/2011 7:50 PM, Cookie wrote:

On Aug 22, 8:33 pm, wrote:
On Aug 22, 5:19 pm, wrote:

On Aug 22, 9:44 am, JJ wrote:

OK Cookie, you don't like my Safety Alert idea. What actions
would you
take to counter the recent rash of soaring accidents?
JJ

Well I can't counter the recent rash of accidents because they
have
already happened......unless I get a time machine.

But I can point out actions to prevent pilots form repeting those
errors. Most pilots are already doing preventitive measures,
which is
simply a part of being a pilot and taking responsibility.

So lets take the recent incidents one by one, starting with the
"low
pass" incident.

Solution: Don't do low passes!

JJ, that is the short answer and sums it up....and insures 100%
accident free due to low passes.....

If you don't understand this answer....I can give you the long
version
if you wish. Or we can move on the another incident...

Cookie

Cookie, isn't this exactly what JJ was suggesting?? Reminding
people
the dangers of low pass so they will avoid doing this?
Same goes for the rudder signal, low rope break etc. Remind
people the
risks and consequences so hopefully someone else will avoid the
same
mistake. There are still many pilots out there who live under a
rock
and believe that soaring is safer than driving to the airport.
The SSF and the rest of us should discuss accidents so we all
try to
learn something and remind ourself of the many ways we can kill
ourself.

Ramy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ramy do you really need "reminding" to realize that low passes are
dangerous?

So a guy gets killed doing a low pass....Do you need the SSA, FAA,
NTSB, and whoever else to tell you "Don't do that".

I mean really, we are supposedly trained, experienced pilots..with
some degree of intellegence and common sense.

Cookie

Obviously some us are not properly trained or don't have a certain
degree of intelligence or common sense. Some of these people might
see
the light with a timely reminder. Many won't.

Also some fellow club members might wake up to the fact that one of
these days one of these stunts is going to involve an innocent
bystander. A reminder might motivate them to speak up and establish
some local common sense.

It might not help, but how can reminding people of the obvious hurt?

--
Mike Schumann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mike,

If there are that many stupid people out there flying (and I am
starting to think there are)..accident rates will not get better. I
think statistics show that accident rates for glider have been fairly
constant in the long run, with some good years and some bad years.

I "remind" myself...every time I fly, and even when I'm not flying.

If others need reminding, of the blatently obvious...OK remind them.

But my objection is to the knee jerk reaction to a fatality, and then
placing the blame other then where it belongs....

"If only the SSA would have released a safety bulletin then joe pilot
would not be dead"

Every club I know of has a "safety officer"...every club has "safety
meetings"...every club I know of has a "safety' section at the club
meetings....every instructor I know has a #1 concern for
safety...every gliding textbook I have ever read deals with safety to
some degree....every flight review is centered on safety....every
field check out is safety oriented....every prospective new club
member is examined as to safety....the SAA has published a safety
column as long as I can remember....NTSB publishes accident
reports...any number of pilot publications have an accident report
section and numerous safety articles....numerous books have been
published dealing specifically with soaring safety and accident
prevention......etc.

OK, so now we need "safety alerts"...go for it ...you're right it
couldn't hurt..........but will it address the problem? I dunno!

Cookie

You need to get around more. Every soaring club does NOT have a safety
officer. Every club does NOT have safety meetings.......

If you have club members who are not getting drilled with safety
messages daily by there fellow local members, wouldn't it be helpful
for
them to get some regular input from the SSA?

If these safety reminders are completely ineffective, why is the FAA
putting so much effort into their wings program and other e-mail
alerts?

--
Mike Schumann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mike....

If the safety information is not available from one or two of the
sources I mentioned...it is available from the other 10 or so I
mentioned and the other 20 or so I did not mention....

Any reasonable pilot can get all the safety infromation he cares to
get.....

Any idiot can put he blinders on and be ignorant, no natter how many
"safety alerts" you post, or publish or mail to them...

But hey...if you think we need a "safety alert system" whenever there
a rash of accidents....go for it....

Cookie

You are right. Anyone who is interested in safety can get the
necessary information from multiple sources. These guys are not the
problem.

The pilots who are the problem are the ones who aren't looking for
safety information and don't have anyone they interact with on a
regular basis who are pushing a safety message.

--
Mike Schumann

There are a lot of people who see something unsafe happening and don't
speak up. Whether they assume that the other party already knows about
it, or they don't think it's any of their business, or they are
concerned about sounding like a know it all.....

That's part of the culture that needs to change. Everyone needs to
speak up when they see something that doesn't look right. Often the
message may be a false alarm or ignored, but every now and then it might
save someone's life.

--
Mike Schumann