On Aug 24, 8:01*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Aug 23, 2:50*pm, Drew Pearce wrote:









Currently many commercial glider operations do not want to
work with some ticket agencies reselling their tickets because
they cannibalize business from customers already searching for
them online. They have professional *sales people, slick yet
vague websites, the advertising budget to get top search engine
placement and can often sell for less than a commercial glider
operator because they make a good profit off of unredeemed
gift certificates.

If commercial glider operators do not want to work with them
now, then I would expect they will just quit the FAST program if
it means they would have to accept gift certificates sold by a
third party ticket agency. So then it is conceivable that
commercial operations would see a loss of business and
participating clubs would be over burdened with rides. If people
are buying a gift for a glider ride, is it then legal or ethical to
send the gift recipient to a non-profit club when the customer felt
they were dealing with a commercial business? Does the fact
that a ticket agency make a profit on the ride cause a problem
for the non-profit club status?

The way the SAA FAST program works now, the majority of
people being sent to a flight school would not have otherwise
found them and so are most likely helping increase their
business. However, if most of the people sent to them through
the FAST program are really just looking for a ride and typically
would have bought directly from the operator, then the FAST
program no longer makes since to operators. A commercial
operation typically takes a loss when honoring a FAST
certificate.

Caution should be used before trying to remove any SSA
business member since this may cause some legal problems for
the SSA. New rules could be created for the FAST program to
close any loopholes which could cause the program to collapse.
Maybe only allow participating flight schools who actually honor
the FAST certificates be allowed to resale the FAST certificates.
You may also want to limit the number a FAST certificates each
one can resale (since one could buy or lease a glider and
towplane to operate just 1 day a year) plus require that sales
methods for FAST certificates need to be directed primarily
towards customers planning to use them at their own location.
This needs more thought before setting the rules but this gives
an idea of how to close the loopholes without causing legal
problems. The US parachute association supposedly had a bad
experience trying to kick out a business member once for
similar reasons and were not successful in removing them I
heard.

A flight school who works with a third party ticket agency can
still offer the FAST program to those students that schedule with
them through the third party ticket agency and who really want
a lesson. The flight school can purchase the book packets
directly from the SSA for $50, give them to any students coming
in for an intro lesson and then get their $50 back when the SSA
receives the membership certificate. This is what the Hollister
Soaring Center does with every new student. The SSA gets a
new member and the student gets essentially free books plus a
membership. There is no need or advantage for the SSA to work
with any third party ticket agency that I can see.

I would like to add a bit of information to this thread.

1800skyrides is a brand and was acquired by Headband LLC in October
2010. *The former company was IGO Vincent LLC. *When consulted, I
advised them of the considerable ill will the brand carried in the US
soaring community. Part of their marketing plan is to use localized
domains and targeted search placement. *I advised them to have an
agreement or relationship to market to specific operations. *If an
operation opts out, then don't refer customers to them, but don't
offer up a specific operation until said agreement exists.

FAST packages are flight lessons, intended to grow soaring, not thrill
rides. *However, soaring is thrilling, adventurous, exciting, and
invitations to become involved long term should include this
emphasis. *It is an aero sport with awards, benchmarks, records, and
competition. *Individual participation in those aspects varies and the
promotion or stifling of those aspects by soaring organizations also
varies. *FAST packages should be part of the invitation to become
involved.

Should Headband LLC dba Soaring Sports be able to sell FAST packages
and refer to agreeable organizations? *An SSA member and help recently
sold FAST packages as a soaring promotion at Oshkosh, armed with a
list of SSA clubs and business members that participated in redeeming
packages. *So some will be contacted out of the blue that they got it
while at Oshkosh.

Soaring Adventures of America,www.800soaring.com, is a long time SSA
business member. *They are not selling FAST packages, but glider
rides. *If you check the locations, California and Colorado (both high
activity soaring states), are distinctly missing. *I suspect this is
probably part of the halo effect of the regionalized efforts against
the previously bad actions of IGO Vincent.

The questions are whether the price a third party will charge for
their marketing services is justified, that what they are marketing is
honestly described, and whether we allow them to use our 'product'.
If we do allow it, then we have something to say about the honesty.
Soaring Sports has been doing what they were asked to do, but they
were warned that 800skyride.com carried baggage. *Now if a soaring
organization also offers glider rides, that can also be an offering,
again with an established agreement/relationship, with or without SSA
business membership, FAST packages, or whatever. *It would be dumb to
offer anything without a redemption agreement.

I think we all agree that soaring needs promotion.

Frank Whiteley

Soaring does need promotion.

The FAST program is an excellent way to do that. However, at $99
there is precious little profit opportunity for anyone. It usually
works out as a shared loss between the club/operator and the SSA to
promote soaring which it is hoped benefits both in the long run.

There's no way for a middleman/marketer/distributor to profit unless
games are played with the money. This is mainly betting on a low
redemption ratio but can also be a strong arm after-the-fact
negotiation with the the service provider to accept less money. None
of these tactics reflect well on the SSA.

Saying that "800 Skyride/Soaring Sports" has some "baggage" is putting
it most kindly. Dealing with an eager prospect who has paid an
exorbitant price on the internet for a voucher you can't redeem (BTDT)
doesn't lead to "baggage" it leads to a PR nightmare for soaring in
general.

I've seen the 3rd party marketeers try their game in several
businesses and it invariably fails miserably even if high margins are
possible since it forces large increases in the retail price cutting
demand.