On Nov 2, 3:39*pm, Ramy wrote:
On Nov 1, 6:54*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:

*Bill D wrote..........
If the glider has transitioned into a spiral dive, and the pilot does
nothing or uses spin recovery controls, it's going to get nasty -
especially at low altitudes.

I believe the way to distinguish between a spin or a spiral is to take
a quick peek at the airspeed indicator. If it is reading 60 knots or
more, you are in a spiral, not a spin and need to roll the wings level
and pull the nose up to the horizon. If you apply spin recovery
controls (stick forward and opposite rudder) you will find yourself
going straight down right now!
Cheers,
JJ

One important lesson from this discussion, regardless if it is related
to this accident or not, is the importance of practicing a spin
recovery as well as spiral recovery. However when the pilot is the one
who initiate the spin and/or the spiral dive, the recovery is straight
forward, since your controls are likely in extreem position and since
you initiated the manouver all you need is to basically reverse what
you did.
In a real stall/spin, there is the lement of surprise, and the
controls are likely near neutral so the recovery is not as obvious as
in practice. As such, the practice should be intitated by someone else
than the pilot.
So next time you do your BFR or fly with an instructor, instead of
practcing stall/spin/spiral recovery the traditional way where the
pilot initiate the manouver, ask the instructor to initiate the stall/
spin/spiral, preferably without warning, and let you take over the
control to recover. This should be a standard part of instructions and
BFRs. The current method mostly teaches you how to inititate spin and
spirals but not how to recover from accidental one.

Ramy

It seems to me the lessons of this crash are less likely in the
"improper operation of the controls" general area and more in the
"aeronautical decision making" area. What was the decision-making
process that led to even trying a ground tow behind a 200 foot rope,
with a plan to do a 180 at the end of the runway? To what extent was
camera pressure involved? Getting to the end of the runway at 200
feet, slow speed, and nowhere to land ahead seems the question, not
whether the pilot has a miraculous touch to avoid what's going to
happen next.

Though the FAA and flight instruction is focusing more and more on
decision making, the NTSB seems not so interested, so it is unlikely
we will hear the story well investigated from this aspect.

John Cochrane