"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
what do you mean collusion?
Look the word up in a dictionary Michael
And what the actual basis to believe
that is right interpretation of the actual history.
The treaties signed between the USSR and Nazi Germany in 1939,
specifcally the secret protocols
So what? Standard practice for anyone. For istance
on 25.08.39 Britain signed agreement of mutual assitance
with Poland, so called Galifax-Rachinsky pact, which also
included a secret protocol defining who is "european state"
against which it is directed and what to do if there will
be need to change that "europen state" to another
"european state". It is defensive pact without secret
protocol and cab be aggresive with one. Ever heard about this?
Nope cause it doesnt exist, the Anglo Polish mutual assistance treaty
of 25th August 1939 was signed by HALIFAX and RACZYNSKI
and was far from secret. In fact the British PM wrote to Hitler on the
28th August specifically to inform him of its content so that there
would be no confusion, he then went on to make a public speech
in the house of commons about the subject. There was no doubt at
the time in anyones mind about the British position.
Existence of Secret Protocols for HALIFAX-RACZYNSKI pact is
secret perhaps only for you, Keith. Anyone else can read the
pact and its secret protocol in many places including:
http://2ndww.tripod.com/Germany/390825.html
http://history.dodnetwork.com/index.....php&art_id=90
it says:
"...SECRET PROTOCOL
The Polish Government and the Government of the United Kingdom and
Northern Ireland are agreed upon the following interpretation of the
Agreement of Mutual Assistance signed this day as alone authentic and
binding.
1. (a) By the expression "a European Power" employed in the Agreement
is to be understood Germany.
(b) In the event of action within the meaning of Article 1 or 2 of the
Agreement by a European Power other than Germany, the Contracting
Parties will consult together on the measures to be taken in common.
-----------------
My comment:
So not only Germany, Keith? And who else?
Article 2 of the HALIFAX-RACZYNSKI pact says that:
(1) The provisions of Article 1 will also apply in the event of any
action by a European Power which clearly threatened, directly or
indirectly, the independence of one of the Contracting Parties, and
was of such a nature that the Party in question considered it vital to
resist it with its armed forces.
How do you like this ANY ACTION, Keith?
(2) Should one of the Contracting Powers become engaged in hostilities
with a European Power in consequence of action by that Power which
threatened the independence or neutrality of another European State in
such a way as to constitute a clear menace to the security of that
Contracting Party, the provisions of Article 1 will apply, without
prejudice, however, to the rights of the other European State
concerned.
WOW! "another European State" now.
------------------
2. (a) The two Governments will from time to time determine by mutual
agreement the hypothetical cases of action by Germany coming within
the ambit of Article 2 of the Agreement.
(b) Until such time as the two Governments have agreed to modify the
following provisions of this paragraph, they will consider: that the
case contemplated by paragraph (1) of the Article 2 of the Agreement
is that of the Free City of Danzig; and that the cases contemplated by
paragraph (2) of Article 2 are Belgium, Holland, Lithuania.
(c) Latvia and Estonia shall be regarded by the two Governments as
included in the list of countries contemplated by paragraph (2) of
Article 2 from the moment that an undertaking of mutual assistance
between the United Kingdom and a third State covering those two
countries enters into force.
(d) As regards Roumania, the Government of the United Kingdom refers
to the guarantee which it has given to that country; and the Polish
Government refers to the reciprocial undertakings of the
Roumano-Polish alliance which Poland has never regarded as
incompatible with her traditional friendship for Hungary.
3. The undertakings mentioned in Article 6 of the Agreement, should
they be entered into by one of the Contracting Parties with a third
State, would of necessity be so framed that their execution should at
no time prejudice either the sovereignty or territorial inviolability
of the other Contracting Party.
4. The present protocol constitutes an integral part of the Agreement
signed this day, the scope of which it does not exceed.
In faith whereof the undersigned, being duly authorized, have signed
the present Protocol.
Done in English in duplicate, at London, the 25th August 1939. A
Polish text shall subsequently be agreed upon between the Contracting
Parties and both texts will then be authentic. "
So was the text of that Secret Protocol made public in august 1939?
You could know better history of your own country, Keith.
The Secret Protocol of the German Soviet agreement on
the other hand were definitely NOT well known at the time
and the Soviets were extremely upset when news of it
was released in 1946.
when this
was admitted by Soviet and Russian governments MANY
years ago.
Well it was admitted by state criminals, traitors and history
falcificators. Certainly you would not deny that if
documents found in a sealed package in the most secrete part
of Gorby archive allowed only, as he said it was, to national leader
eyes, to be very row fakes, when we can be pretty sure
that Gorby himself is involved in falcification of the history
and as such is state criminal and traitor, no matter what were
his or his subordinates real goals.
Trouble is Michael the treaties were initially found in the
GERMAN archives back in 1945
What traubles? I was talking about so called "Katyn documents"
which are found to be fakes. As for Molotov-Ribbentrop pact
we have nothing to hide, absolutely nothing. All was done correctly
properly and in time. I see absolutely no traubles for us with
all that Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
and the truth came out
during the Nuremburg tial of Hans Franck German Governor
of Poland. Despite the protests of the Soviet Union the Gauss
affidavit was entered into evidence. This was an account of the
contents of the documents which was drafted from memory by
Dr. Wilhelm Gauss, legal adviser to the Nazi Foreign Office,
who drew up the non-aggression treaty between the Reich and
the Soviet Union.
Exactly this was non-aggresive treaty on 23.09.39 and later on.
He was present at the meeting between Ribbentrop and
Stalin at which the agreement to carve up Poland was made.
All this came out 40 years before Gorby came to power.
So what but he was present at the meeting?
Yes
Keith I do not quite understand you. what you want to prove?
That the Soviet Government colluded with the Nazis to carve up
Poland between them.
How? documents do not say a word about carving up.
Actual history events also do not. After all Stalin restored
Poland although in a bit different borders. Why
he did not took it all? Who could stop him in 45?
The Polish officer corps represented a
possible threat to Soviet hegemony and Stalin dealt with it
the same way he dealt with the officer corps of the Red Army in
1939, mass executions and deportations to Siberia.
Note this is based on wrong assumption that Polish
officers were killed by NKVD. What if Germans did that?
Around 1 million Poles were sent to Soviet prison camps in
1940/41 and the Soviets forcibly imposed their own education
and governmental institutions in Eastern Poland. This was no
liberation, it was Empire building.
Keith you clearly do not like other Empire buildings.
British Empire building is Ok of course.
I see.
Michael
Keith