i don't want to insult you ed, but fighters have changed a lot since
you flew them. yes i'll give you that british guys are ok, but ask any
contemporary fighter pilot and he/she wil tell you that as a whole the
RAF has been lacking any kind of significant single seat experience.
Jag guys are great, but lets face it, it't got jack **** power and no
radar - you just can't fight in todays environment with an airplane
like that. I also learned to fly fighters from brits among pilots from
many other nationalities, and i feel that they were the weakest of all
the europeans. I'm sure many of the folks here have seen nothing other
than unclassified performance numbers for a lot of these aircraft, nor
have they done a whole lot of military flying. What I'm trying to say
here is this - first, the US jets in general are very well designed,
the whole package - from the long range BVR sort/shot to engaged
maneuvering. So what, some F-15s (allegedly) got beat (lets not get
into the whole unbriefed engagement,/tr violation discussion here).
The fact of the matter is that the Eagle is very beatable in the phone
booth, because it wasn't designed to ever be there. Eagle drivers are
the kings of the BVR game. The F-22. When I talk about a neutral setup
I mean beak to beak, butterfly split type thing. I'm sorry I've seen
the numbers and the F-22 is one mean turning machine. As a matter of
fact I'm of the opinion that a good guy in a Hornet or big mouth 16
charlie will be able to do just fine against the typhoon. I'll send
you a hud tape to prove it if we ever get to exercise with these
guys...

You know what, I've flown british jets and with british pilots, and
they both suck. i would take a us made jet anytime over the
eurofighter (i remember when it was called the eurofighter 90 lol) oh
yeah, i'm not american either. give me a us made jet anytime. i'll eat
my own crap when a typhoon wins over an f-22 in a neutral setup bfm
engagement.

It would be interesting for you to fill in some details about the what
and who. I've flown with RAF types on exchange duty and found them
incredibly well trained and knowledgeable. One of my earliest tactical
fighter IPs was an exchange Lightning driver who was instructing in
F-105 school. He could beat anybody in the squadron air-to-air in a
decidely non-air-to-air aircraft.

You would be hard pressed to find anyone in any service who is better
at low-level than a Buccaneer driver, and the talent and experience
carried right through to the Tornado force. For light, flex tactical
operations, the Jaguar guys are pretty impressive as well.

So, you might want to offer something to justify your strong opinion.

As for your future diet, you should be aware (based on your implied
experience) that "neutral set-up BFM" doesn't tell you squat about an
aircraft's air superiority real-world mission potential. On any given
day, a pair of similar generation tactical fighters flown by a pair of
reasonably trained and knowledgeable pilots can end a neutral setup
BFM engagement with either side winning.

I've lost a lot of neutral setup BFM engagements. I've won a few as
well. But, I've never lost a combat engagement.

You want ketchup with that lunch?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8