+1 Max. Its a bit like the first attempt at communication with the alien mother ship of Close Encounters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUcOaGawIW0

Its going to take some time to understand eachother!

Paul, I truly appreciate your post on the firmware version and your efforts to smooth the sands. The timing is (shockingly) perfect for LXNAV to release this news. I'll be happy when the USRC makes a specific statement about the requirement for special firmware to ensure that LXNAV's modern instruments AH capability is absolutely inaccessible, just as is required for the others. Firmware and app versions is a fairly weak method of enforcement, FWIW. That said, my posts are intended to engage a broader argument. I hope its starting to sink in a little. Its a pain in the ass for everyone! Fairness and consistency comes into play...

The inconvenience these AH ban rules are increasingly producing (for all of us...dealers, software and hardware manufactures, RC, contest staff and especially pilots who heaven forbid have bought updated systems) greatly outweigh the competition or safety value of banning the flood of AH type functionality in modern (racing level) soaring instruments. I assume the vast majority of US pilots do not cheat by cloud flying. Even with the existing rules...the intelligent cheater is going to EASILY be capable cheat no matter what is written. This is the fact that it most troubling.

It is definitely not enough, in my opinion, for LXNAV customers to "say" that they don't have the AH box installed. Its capability is FAR MORE THREATENING than, for example, mobile phone based systems. The rest of us (Butterfly, LK8000 and XCSoar) are required by USRC to build/install special versions of firmware and software for our products. If Paul's post is correct, add LXNAV to that list assuming the USRC requires it and enforces it. Great. But what does all this effort really gain us?

At a basic level, who is going to enforce the firmware and app versions and confirm them? This is more difficult than it sounds. I could easily switch my SD card on my phone for example with XCSoar. So could a young child. To be effective in any meaningful way these inspections need to be on a daily basis as firmware can be changed in 5 minutes and SD cards can be swapped out in seconds. Etc. The cheating pilot is far more creative than this ban and even strong enforcement levels can detect... The ban does literally nothing to prevent actual illegal cloud flying. It is a very minimal deterrent in general given the level of tools available.

So what is it going to be in regards to LXNAV? USRC required contest firmware version or daily box checks inside the panel? We cant have it both ways, can we? Who will enforce this at contests and to what level & frequency (daily I hope with random spot checks). Can competing pilots request to check other pilots gliders at contests if they suspect cheating?

I suggest that it should NOT be an honor system with LXNAV's $1700 AH system. The LXNAV system is an extremely capable product and should require a much higher standard than useless mobile systems which HAVE ALREADY HAVE BEEN REQUIRED by you to produce US Contest legal versions of their firmware and software.

Sean
F2

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:26:15 AM UTC-4, Max Kellermann wrote:
Paul Remde
wrote:
This implies that the AHRS is completely disabled and can't be
re-enabled for the 14 days.

What if I publish a proof-of-concept patch that adds a horizon to
LX8000 and others, circumventing this switch?

I think I can assemble one for LX8000/9000 (from LXNav) and the
upcoming LX Zeus (from LX Navigation) in a matter of a few days. It
will not be detectable without special equipment. And it will work
without the new AHRS hardware.

(Pilots interested in such an exploit may send me a private message)

If mainline XCSoar gets banned, I will demonstrate that most other
products must be banned, too. Better keep an old first-generation
electronic vario at hand when you attend a contest, to avoid surprises
;-)

I have already written a patch for LK8000 that pretends to be
"LKCOMPETITION" but doesn't actually disable the horizon:

http://git.xcsoar.org/cgit/max/lk800...5859495c5818d2

Given the existence of this patch, contest organizers cannot be sure
whether a pilot's PNA runs an approved LK8000 version or a fake
full-featured version with my patch.

I'm not trying to support cheaters, I just want to make clear that
banning new technology is not a useful measure to prevent cheating.

Max