On 6/27/2012 12:56 AM, Marc wrote:
On Jun 26, 9:11 pm, Ramy wrote:
Agh, I give up. Every attempt to try to say something about the need for
better safety culture will encounter resistant from those who claim there
is nothing wrong with the system and the only problem is the pilots. I
guess this is their way of convincing themselves they safe since they
will never do such mistakes themselves. Good luck.

Ramy ( who does NOT need anyone to look after him)

One group of pilots here in the US believe that they are sufficiently
trained to avoid making the stupid errors that cause others to end up in
the accident reports. Any pilot who makes this sort of error and crashes,
obviously did not have the skills necessary to be safe in this sport. A
rigorous training regimen, taught only by elite instructors, will provide
training to levels sufficient to address all possible circumstances
encountered during soaring flight. This will result in soaring being safer
than any other form of aviation, at least for the 100 or so pilots left.

A second group of pilots likely remember times when they were lucky to
recover from situations in which their skill and experience levels were
nearly overwhelmed. Say, things that sometimes happened at the ends of
long days of flying, perhaps aided by a bit of dehydration or hypoxia, a
bit distracted by encountering something unexpected, or just a touch of
complacency because they have final glide nailed. Add a momentary lapse of
situational awareness, missing the clue that suggests things aren't going
to work out quite as expected, etc., and suddenly one is staring into the
abyss. A greater willingness in the community to talk honestly talk about
mistakes that they and others make, would lead to increased levels of
safety. There is always going to be some amount of risk, as humans are not
perfect.

The obvious solution, of course, is for the pilots in the first group to
convince the pilots in the second group to retire from soaring ;^)

Marc


Great discussion! (Yeah, I know - as the one who started this thread - I can
be accused of 'priming the pump' or 'self promotion' or something else
disparaging, but I don't care.)
- - - - - -

Ramy - I think I can understand "where you're coming from" insofar as wanting
to see "a better safety culture" within our amazing sport. Brad's observations
seem to me to bear out the - not universal, to be sure, but IMHO undoubtedly
real - need.

I also think I understand where Bill D. and Kirk are coming from, which is to
say (without intending to put words in their mouths) both seem to me to be
opining from the perspective of people who've already concluded "it's obvious
Joe PIC is the fundamental problem (a perspective with which I agree)...(and
by implication,) hasn't everyone else already concluded the same?" Clearly
that latter can never be the case, as provable to every reader who can
remember their original ignorance about flying and safety.

IOW, in this thread-to-date I haven't detected a fundamental disagreement as
to individual attitudes toward "the heart of piloting safety" so much as I
sense (unsurprising) differences in assessments of what might "best be done to
improve soaring's safety stats."

FWIW, I always encourage everyone who feels strongly about something to do
their best to change/improve things. My rationale is the effort might in time
prove to have zero effect, but if no effort is put out at all, then you're
*guaranteed* of having no effect. Shoot, this very thread reflects application
of my rationale! :-)
- - - - - -

Marc - Chortle! Pretty darned accurate simplification, methinks.
- - - - - -

Everyone - thanks for chiming in! Any silent fence-sitters? Please!! Share
your thoughts, too.

Bob W.