On Sunday, December 9, 2012 1:22:39 PM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:
On Sunday, December 9, 2012 2:58:01 PM UTC-5, wrote:

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 11:29:22 AM UTC-8, John Carlyle wrote:



I had a look at the SSA Contest results, and I can't tell if mixed rules (US and FAI) were tried at the super regional held in Moriarty last year. If (1) the Club Class FAI petition succeeds, and (2) the contest organizer changes his mind, then Mifflin might be the first mixed rule Nationals contest.



I may have missed it, but I don't believe anyone has asked the pilots flying Sports Class at Mifflin in May 2013 how they'd feel about flying under US rules while another Class at the same contest was flying under FAI rules.



Speaking for myself, I'm not eager to be in such an experiment. In my view there are chances for things to go wrong, and I'd prefer that mixed rules flying be tried somewhere else, without me participating.



-John







I'm curious John, what conflicts do you see with Sports Class? The same start and finish can be used. The difference is a narrower handicap range, only AT and AAT and scoring formula. How does that effect a US rules based Sports Class?



Sean Franke (HA)



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 3:23:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:

BTW John, I appreciate your question. I feel many have misperceptions about FAI and its integration. Some have spun negative image and scare tactics to keep FAI out of the US.



Sean Franke (HA)





Sean,



What concerns me the most are reports that FAI rules result in gaggle flying. For the relatively new to competition pilots that Sports Class attracts, I can think of a few ways that gaggle flying could cause real problems at the start, during the task, and at the finish.



At the start Sports Class could be milling around near the top of the cylinder close to the course line when suddenly a large group of gliders (the entire Club Class) could zoom by just under Vne. You'd definitely need different start areas with different first course lines.



During the task Sports Class gliders could be caught by a large part of the Club Class in a thermal. This wouldn't be the comparatively tame pre-start large gaggle thermal experience, but a large number of experienced contest pilots with their game face on, flying aggressively to get and keep any possible advantage, in the company of relatively new to competition pilots.



At the finish a Sports Class glider pilot could find himself making an approach along with most of the Club Class. Mifflin can handle 6 simultaneous approaches, but more than that could get real exciting (dangerous).



I'm sure that you, or someone else experienced with both US and FAI rules, could think of other potential problems with flying mixed rules (and probably you/they could think of possible ways to minimize these problems, too. But I'm afraid that until mixed rules are actually tried during a contest we won't understand all of the areas where things could go wrong. And I'd rather not be at that particular contest...



-John

John, gaggle flying happens mostly in AT and weak days. With the RC proposal AT will happen next year with both lower and higher handicap range gliders flying US Rules in Mifflin. So in that respect you can expect more gaggle flying next year with current RC proposal.

An FAI rules based class in Mifflin will have no increased gaggling than what is currently proposed. No matter which rules are applied gaggle flying before the start is unavoidable. I have flow FAI and US Rule based contests. My biggest gaggle flying experience by far was under US Rules. BTW, I have flown four FAI contests and never seen anyone make a red line start.

It's a common US perception that FAI contest = extreme gaggle, unsafe and aggressive flying. This myth is perpetuated by those trying to keep simpler, common sense FAI Rules out of the US.

We are trying to accomplish three goals with FAI rules:
1. Narrow handicap range
2. AT and AAT only
3. IGC scoring

All are 100% compatible in Mifflin.

Sean Franke (HA)