On 6/4/2013 6:46 AM, Sean Franke wrote:

(Some major snips for continuity's sake...)

I did spin training in CA shortly after receiving my glider
license. It has been very helpful for me as I have continued
along with glider flight.

...this great video (British I believe) was very similar
to the spin instruction I received. I hope it is helpful to any
pilots who have not yet had extensive spin/spin recovery
training.

http://youtu.be/p8_mJmR2qlw

Just do this! It could save a life!

A view in the US is risks associated with spin training are about
the same as the risks avoided so there is little to be gained one
way or the other. Another is teaching stall/spin avoidance is more
important and, as a practical matter, more useful than teaching
spin recovery. That's why Part 61 doesn't require them except for
flight instructors.

In support of that view, most German gliders built in the last 25
years are quite spin resistant...(We've
just figured out other ways to kill ourselves.)

The exception is many gliders from Eastern Europe which tend to be
more "spinnable"...

I can't agree with the idea that German gliders don't spin. At least
the ones I am most familiar with (ash26e, duo discus, ask21) will
spin. At least you will get a nice spin departure, maybe it turns
into a spiral dive quickly but on the turn to final that is only of
academic interest.

I said "spin resistant" not that they wouldn't spin.

I'm not sure what terms to use. I haven't noticed much "resistance" - get
too slow in a turn and the wing drops into a spin departure. Not much
different than the 2-32 or the eastern European gliders I have flown.
They may be more resistant to a fully developed spin, but where this is
typically a problem, 1/2 turn and you meet the trees.

Now a 2-33, that is somewhat "spin resistant" - but you can still get it
to start!

One problem for training, its getting harder to find a glider that is
certificated for intentional spins.

I also thought a 2-33 didn't like to spin until seeing this video:

http://www.flixxy.com/10-year-old-li...-sailplane.htm

Sean Franke

When unintentional departures from controlled flight - whether leading to a
"fully developed spin" or to "merely a fully-controllable spiral dive" -
happen with "too thin" margins, they're always seriously bad news to Joe
Pilot. (Kids, don't DO this, even if you're a trained professional!)

Personally, I find the mindsets I've encountered in fellow pilots (soaring and
power) regarding spins: often worrisome; always interesting; almost
universally lacking in fundamental understanding of the aerodynamic
uncertainties inherent to "departures from controlled flight" (typically
called "spin" for short).

To make a sweeping general statement which has long colored my own approach to
PIC-ing, if Joe Pilot doesn't truly believe "departure from controlled
flight/spinning" is "uncontrolled flight" Joe Pilot is doing him or herself a
serious disservice if living to fly another flight is personally important.
True whether margins are thin or not...

To make another sweeping general statement, I doubt there's an airframe around
that can't be induced into "uncontrolled flight" from "more or less normal"
control activities and "normal flight energies." Fly accordionly...

Considering typical sailplane flight energies, if you're MUST hit something,
hit it horizontally...in the U.S. this 2013 soaring season, "happily" we've
several pilots still around who can attest to this being better than the
"sudden stoppage" alternative.

End of preachification...

Bob W.

P.S. No intention to be quibbling with/"picking at" any of the contributors to
this - topically important!!! - thread. I fundamentally agree with all of them.