GM,

You are the man!


On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 5:55:41 AM UTC-4, GM wrote:
On Monday, October 7, 2013 4:34:57 PM UTC+2, Sean F (F2) wrote:

Probably 30 amps... Enough to keep itself aligned into the wind and to adjust the blade pitch (X 100's of turbines in each farm). The motors required to manage those tasks are not small! Nor is the power required to run those motors and manage the electronics required to operate the systems. If you ever stand near one while they are stopped and trying to re-"spin" you learn that they are working fairly hard, constantly adjusting the blade heading and blade angle. Even while running in a strong wind, the turbine makes many corrections each minute in blade pitch and probably in turbine drag. All requiring significant power. Also, the turbine only engages and produce net power once a certain amount of blade speed (net power) is achieved. This speed is higher than most realize. So, even all the alignment and blade changes at low speed are also from power being sucked off the grid. In other words, at low speed the blade is just free wheeling with no power being produced. We have a huge "windfarm" to the NE of Ionia near Alma Michigan. We fly over it often. Probably 150 - 200 generators. Personally, I refer to this region as the field of death" or the "bird scrambler farm"! The ground around them is literally littered with dead birds. I would fear greatly for the soaring birds in the Mifflin habitat. Were is the EPA on this one? Hmmm? Sure, its a big problem when you endanger the spotted owl (in any capitalist endeavor)...but when hundreds of hawks and other birds are ensured of a brutal inhumane death every month per wind turbine blade strikes its overlooked because its a liberal project. Enjoy the death of birds at the hand of green energy liberals below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU http://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cifixes/page/2 http://now.msn.com/bird-hits-wind-tu...lled-instantly http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...twitchers.html https://www.google.com/search?q=bird...ih=62 9&dpr=2 The horror of liberals and their wind turbines are very real for soaring birds. Liberals, where are you on this one? Hmmmm? Tens of thousands on INNOCENT BIRDS are dying each and every day! Their blood is on your hands!



Sean,



thanks for your enlightening and education! Is all your wisdom based on true insight knowledge, i.e. you worked in the industry and have climbed countless turbines, etc. or did you just Google the issue and then re-post all the bit & pieces which support your point of view? Perhaps you stayed at a Holiday-Inn Express last night. ;-) Remember - you cannot believe everything on the internet - that's how WW-1 got started!

As an FYI - I work in designing and repairing wind turbines for a good number of years, so here we go:

Enough to keep itself aligned into the wind and to adjust the blade pitch

Correct. That way, the turbine can get back on-line at a moments notice, once the wind picks up to above cut-in speed.

The motors required to manage those tasks are not small

Wrong - these motors have a rating of a few kW and they are in operation a few seconds at a time. Your home A/C probably has a bigger motor.

Nor is the power required to run those motors and manage the electronics required to operate the systems

Wrong - a turned off turbine consumes only a few kW to keep the batteries charged, keep up the comm with the remote controll center, etc. That number goes up should there be a low or no-wind situation in the winter, when heaters kick in to keep the oil fluid and the controlls from collecting condensation.

If you ever stand near one while they are stopped and trying to re-"spin" you learn that they are working fairly hard, constantly adjusting the blade heading and blade angle.

Partly wrong - if a turbine senses that the wind is picking up and it may trend towards the cut-in speed, it adjusts the balde pitch to the 'run-up' position and keeps them there since this is the pitch at which it would be most efficient to spool up to speed with. The yaw system is always keeping the machine head in the wind, no matter what.

Even while running in a strong wind, the turbine makes many corrections each minute in blade pitch

Correct - in order to extract the max power, the balde angles are adjusted very often, very quickly by even a fraction of a degree - all done by very small motors.

...and probably in turbine drag.

HUH???

All requiring significant power.

Wrong - compared to the overall production of one turbine, the power it consumes during operation or when standing still is chump-change!

Also, the turbine only engages and produce net power once a certain amount of blade speed (net power) is achieved. This speed is higher than most realize.

Correct - but that cut-in speed is lower than you think, particularly with the newer, larger rotor machines. About 5m/s is enough to go on-line and pump power into the grid.

So, even all the alignment and blade changes at low speed are also from power being sucked off the grid. In other words, at low speed the blade is just free wheeling with no power being produced.

Partly correct - in the run-up phase, the turbine spools up to speed and performs a bunch of self-checks. As I said before, no blade adjustments are being done until the turbine decides it sees enough to on-line and produce.. Hardly any power is 'sucked off the grid' in that phase!

Personally, I refer to this region as the field of death" or the "bird scrambler farm"! The ground around them is literally littered with dead birds.

So you think that a turbine is a large Cuisinart which purees whole floks of birds? I do visit wind farms across the US and Europe regularly - remember, I work for one of those evil companies - and I have yet to find an area littered with dead birds or bats! Even the Audoban Society published a study saying that more birds get killed by cars, by flying into plate glass or by cats! I am not denying that birds get killed by flying into the blades but the magnitude is by far not as you describe it.



The rest of your ramblings exceeds my will to respond, so I won't comment..

I do not wish for any soaring site to loose its value or utility - we have lost too many in the US already - but I think who ever is developing the site will give a hoot about a bunch of guys wanting to zipp over that ridge in their white shimy toys for their own pleasure! Trying to stop a project like this needs better arguments than what was cited above.



GM