On Sunday, April 13, 2014 6:43:32 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 6:25:35 PM UTC-5, Doug wrote:

What are the inexpensive devices for logging Silver and Gold badge flights, and how do they compare - costs / ease of use / reliability, etc ? I will be working on my Silver badge this season, using a rented glider, so I need an inexpensive, portable, and easy to use setup. It seems to me that the FR300 is priced much lower than the others, but there must be more to it than just price. Thanks.







Doug



I used a flywithCE to log a glider flight where the attempt was to stay local and just reach the silver altitude of 3281'. I was successful with the altitude. I had an observer and filled out all the paperwork prior to the flight. I later found out that I can't use my flywithCE for the silver alt because I didn't declare this attempt using the logbook software (that's not user friendly) prior to going to the airport. I declare that the flywithCE is a waste and that I should have taken that $130 and applied it toward a real flight logger. I turned the thing on and it recorded my flight which doesn't count because I didn't declare it with software. How the heck to you declare on any software that you're going to go out and fly 5 hours or go out and climb 3281' after tow? The badge program is really confusing and I have yet to find anyone who has a good knowledge base. The most challenging part of soaring shouldn't be the mazes created by the bureaucracy to prove you did something. I can see why there is rarely talk about badges in our club. I think a lot of glider pilots have lost interest due to the complications and expense to prove something you did so you can get pin to stick in your wife's jewelry box. Does anyone want a good deal on a flywithCE?

Unfortunately almost everything you wrote make no sense, and with that level of confusion you are not likely to get anywhere. So stop, take a deep breath and start over with understanding the rules. Read and understanding the sporting code yourself, and the approval document for whatever recording device you are using. Don't waste time with someone else's summary etc.--read and understand the actual FAI IGC SC3 sporting code and Annex C (Pilot and OO Guide) and the approval document for your position/flight recorder.

I'm not sure who is helping you understand what went wrong with your past silver altitude claim but you still seem to have a jumbled understanding here. Did you submit a claim and it was rejected? The explanations back from the SSA are normally very helpful, are you sure you are reading it correctly?

For example ... there is no declaration required for any altitude badge flight. If somebody is telling you there is, ask them the exact rule section number that requires this for an altitude flight. I'm suspecting you might mean that the glider or pilot info part of the declaration in the IGC file was incorrect? I'm expecting with the right OO actions and explanation that the SSA would ignore that--it is clearly the IGC's intent that errors like that even if a declaration is required do not unnecessarily result in the denial of award of a silver or gold flight performance (e.g. SC3 Annex C 6.5). And since no declaration is required for an altitude gain I'm not sure why there would be a problem here. So who thought there was a declaration required? And if basic info in an electronic declaration was wrong when your OO explained that to the SSA what exactly happened?

Again as has been advised here many times, *if* a declaration is required (and its not for your altitude flight) most pilots are much better off forgetting the electronic declaration and making a paper declaration that is more recent than any electronic one and that paper declaration will override everything (SC3 Annex C describes using a paper declaration to override electronic ones). I'm also missing how having a full ICG approved flight recorder would change any declaration related things here (but yes they are nicer for other reasons).

To the best of my knowledge the SSA has never approved the FlyWIthCE for altitude gain purposes (and based on my undemanding of that device, that is for very good reasons). A quick search and I think the current approval document is http://www.ssa.org/files/member/SSA_...%20%283%29.pdf. If that is not it then find the approval document that applies to your device. The approval document read in conjunction with SC3 defines the rules you have to follow. So how were you hoping to demonstrate any altitude gain? Were you also flying with a separate barograph?

And even if your GPS position recorder was approved for use for altitude gains then you need to include a 100m margin must be added (SC3 A7).

You have to read and undertand the rules. Print them out and spend a few hours reading them, it helps to have the definitions part in front of you as you read every rule and carefully look up the precise meaning of each term, don't just assume what anything mean. Read through the whole thing a few times and you should have an "a-ha moment" where it should become clear. If you can't get there, find help or give up now. The random walk approach of just taking flights and hoping things will work out often ends in tears. Likewise asking random idiots at the gliderport to be your OO also often ends in tears, it is really worth finding somebody who knows what they are doing, ask around locally to find out who has their diamonds or above (or even better some records as well) and see if they can be your OO or help you understand the rules. All these finicky rules etc. *are* a part of these things, and they are really not that bad once you 'get' how things work. if you don't want to deal with that minor hassle them then by all means go do somethign else in the glider for fun. Chasing badges is often a neat learning challenge and worth spending the effort on, but lots of folks get a huge amount out of this sport without doing them.

Darryl