"Paul J. Adam" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in
:
Prevent, no. Seriously reduce the odds, yes. (And many of those
'guns' are replicas, blank firers, air pistols or dodgy conversions
- they all count as "firearms" in the crime statistics. One guy
tried to rob a post office using two pieces of gas pipe taped
together: that was a 'firearm crime')

But you CAN be killed by a converted blank gun,or a homemade gun,or
zipgun,

Elsewhere you're claiming that uncertainty of outcome is a good thing
- why the change of mind?

No change of mind;I'm concerned about the ODCs safety,not the criminals.
Those homemade weapons are a lethal threat.In the criminals hands,they are
intended to give the crook domination of the situation,not for any express
purpose of killing,but they still must be regarded as a lethal threat.Point
one at a police officer,and they will be judged proper in shooting and
killing the holder of the homemade weapon.why should it be any different
for an ODC?

and who know's the difference in what the criminal is pointing at
you.Even if it were an unloaded gun,who know's that?

Even the imitations don't turn up in burglaries.

Fact is;guns ARE available to criminals in the UK.

Of course, and always have been, but they don't get used for burglary.

Because they know they are safe,protected by UK's laws against self-
defense,at the expense of the citizenry.Appeasement,that's what it is.

When you start talking
about "odds" of one having a gun,it really doesn't matter.

Are you carrying elephant repellant, Jim? You *could* be trampled to
death by a herd of rogue elephants at any time, you know. I can sell
you, for just $5,000 cash, a guaranteed anti-elephant formula that
will protect you.

Admittedly, you might consider "the odds" of elephant-related death
rather low, but can you afford to take chances with your safety?

well,now you're talking nonsense.But actually,in parts of the US,attacks by
large animals such as bears or cougars is a fair possibility.Deer crash
through people windows.Even people's dogs are a potential threat,especially
the large,dangerous breeds. Some gangbangers use THEM as weapons,too.

And of
course,there are OTHER deadly weapons,some present in your homes,like
kitchen knives.Or weapons of opportunity.But that should NOT restrict
an ODC from having the best weapon available,a firearm.

Thanks, but we like having handguns be rare and unusual. You do it
your way, we'll do it ours.

yes,keep those criminals safe,while your citizens suffer crimes.
Appease them.

And being armed would change what, precisely, if you're outnumbered
and surprised?

Quite often,a group will choose to flee rather than risk getting
shot,something life threatening and hard to explain to officials.

Other times, they'll help themselves to your weapon and use it on you.

And being armed still betters YOUR chances against a group,better
than any other item or method.

Not if one or two of the group have guns: outnumbered and outgunned is
a bad place to be.

You're STILL better off than being unarmed.And at least you will get some
of them before they get you,maybe even the ones with the guns.Then the next
group will have second thoughts about trying such attacks against
others.Nobody wants to get shot,if there's any fair possibility of
shooting,the crooks avoid that.It draws too much attention they don't
want.It's a fact that criminals fear armed citizens(much more than the
police,too.),prison surveys have shown this.

I think you'll find that you're legally allowed to defend yourself
and to prevent crimes, but shooting people in the back as they flee
is not generally allowed for either private citizens or police
officers.

I think you'd find exceptions made for terrorist bombers or serial
killers/rapists.

How many of either have you had in your home lately? For that matter,
how many of the low-lifes who break into houses to steal portable
valuables moonlight as terrorist bomb-carriers?

A few years ago, a Scotsman was working in Texas. He made the
mistake of knocking on someone's door to ask for directions: the
homeowner shot the guy several times through the door and killed
him. Was he a "criminal"?

I don't know all the circumstances of that incident,so I can't say.

How did the presence of firearms protect him, and how would being
armed have helped him? And what crime was prevented by his death?

You fire a weapon in my direction, you are making a deliberate
attempt to kill me, and I *will* take it extremely personally.
Firing at someone is "deadly force" and there's no way to weasel
around it.

Sure it's deadly force.So what? It's still not being "judge,jury and
executioner".There's more than a good chance that you will not die.

Thus leaving the ODC open to a lifetime of legal nightmares,
apparently.

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.


True here too: just no need for lots of handguns. Someone breaks
into your house, you're allowed to hurt them until they leave, and
if they try to come back you can hurt them some more. Just make
sure that most of the wounds are in their front, not their back.

Well,a handgun is much easier to wield in close quarters than a
shotgun,

Where are you keeping it while you're asleep?

Nunya bidness.


and
also can be carried on one's person,concealed.Then they get
protection while outside the home.

Protection from what? It seems you guys live in constant dread.

(And for the endless whines about Jill Dando - she was shot in the
back of the head on her doorstep, caught completely unawares. She
could have had a MAC-10 in each hand and it wouldn't have made the
slightest difference)

Well,so she was caught unawares;that's the result of a false sense of
security that the UK residents have,from their "gun control".

That just shows how one CAN get shot in LONDON,in -nice- places,and
that guns(handguns) ARE available in the UK,regardless of the UK gun
laws.

And how "being armed" is far from the panacea quoted. Note also that
this incident was five years ago - haven't you had any other examples
to cite?


Why,what's changed in the last 5 years? Nothing.But UK gun crimes have
risen every year,I believe,despite gun "control".




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net