On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:36:58 +1200, Kerryn Offord wrote:



Alan Minyard wrote:
SNIP
What makes you say NZ has given up defending itself?

There is a world of difference between defending yourself, which NZers
have no problem with, and shooting as a first response... and also not
being careful about where you are shooting (today's news story about 4
Iraqi school children being shot by US forces when they rushed out of
school to look at the Humvee that had been blown up.... is this the kind
of defending we are expected to be grateful for?)

NZs defence force is about 12000 from a population of ~4 million (0.3%
of pop)

This equates to a USA (pop ~300 million) or 900,000....

Ok, so relatively speaking, we are under protected (there is one regular
infantry battalion per 2 million..so does the US have 150 infantry
battalions?

OTOH... most enlist for more than a single 4 year tour (average more
experienced soldiers....)


Well, you have no air force, no real navy, no effective army, I would say that
is pretty much the definition of defenseless. NZ has given up its status as
a respectable nation. Cowards.

Al Minyard

Hey Al's calling Kiwis cowards...
(And just after ANZAC day too...)

Just how big an airforce, navy and army do you expect a country 1500
miles for the nearest other country to have?

Also... who should we be defending from (that we would have any chance,
even with 10-20% of gdp military spending)?

How many aircraft constitutes a real airforce?
How many warships?
How big an army?

And for that matter... how much is it going to cost?

I mean, NZ has been running budget surpluses for most of the last ten
years... The people really don't like the idea of mortgaging their
children's futures for military spending...

Then of course, we don't have the numbers applying for the military...
they have enough trouble recruiting to maintain the current numbers.

Oh, we don't offer the GI bill, so there is no 'free' university for
ex-soldiers, and being in the territorials doesn't entitle you to no
fees education at state uni.

Let me clarify what was a poorly worded post. I do not, rpt not,
think that the average NZ individual is a coward. The govt of
NZ is another matter.

By the way, in the US most people qualify for a free university
education if they are willing and able to compete for it.

Al Minyard