On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 2:39:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
What I said was all the Mitre salesmanship and pro UAT-hype from folks like
Bernald and you have not resulted in anything at all of use/benefit to the
soaring community. Is that clear enough? And yes I know, the reasons why
that is will be entirely somebody else's fault...

Darryl, there was a lot of interesting discussion going on in ancient times (you know, before PowerFlarm, 8 or 9 years ago). As I remember it, Bernald was pushing UAT back then because there was a lot of concern about the possibility of glider vs. airliner collisions, and at the time, UAT seemed like it was going to be a good way of getting gliders, ultralights, balloons, etc., integrated into the air traffic system at low cost and with minimal power consumption. The icing on the cake was the Mitre UAT ADS-B out prototypes, that were basically built using $100 or so worth of cellphone chipsets and COTS GPS modules, and could run all day on a few AA cells. I know Mike was involved in the successful testing of these units in gliders and powered aircraft in the Virginia area (if I remember correctly). This was a promising technology with a lot of support even from groups within the FAA, with the end goal being pervasive use of UAT-based ADS-B technology in UAVs, general aviation, and gliders. The general understanding at the time was that these units would eliminate the need for transponders for general aviation. But, one should never underestimate the capability of the FAA to create a steaming pile out of a nice clean solution.

I also remember that it was Bernald who introduced Urs to various parties in the US soaring community (myself included), with the explicit intent of bring Flarm into this country. In particular I was present at a number of informal discussions that took place around the '08 SSA convention that were set up by Bernald, which (again, if I remember correctly) led to the notion of PowerFlarm, the Flarm loaner/rental program, and other such things. It's funny how you've now decided that he is nothing more than a misguided salesman.

Marc

Marc

And pushing UAT-Out futures for use in areas where airliners were a concern, like the Reno area, seemed to ignore the issue of lack of TCAS compatibility. And promised folks the hope of low-cost and easy to install UAT-Out devices when many should have been considering installing transpodners. it always just scared the hell out of me, to see this promoted as a goal at all, especially for areas like the Reno area, where TCAS II equipped traffic is such an issue.

I sat through at least one PASCO seminar from Bernald and another given by you where some folks who attended took away that they won't be installing transponders but waiting for these UAT devices. I certainly remember one-post UAT presentation discussion with glider owners from the Reno area who were absolutely in love with this soon to be coming $500 portable box and totally opposed to istalling a $3,000 "power hungry" transponder. Many folks clearly took away far more than they shoudl have about the actual state of play of any of this stuff, and few if any really understood the limitations. Bernald has done may great things for he soaring community and soaring saftey, ultra impressive, but all that effort pushing UAT technology was just a bad idea. And you also have done a huge amount for soaring and soaring saftey, include your work in the Reno area, all fantastic stuff.

And I think it was probalby you, indirectly through Benrald, that introduced me to Urs. Maybe after a seminar I had given on transponders, ADS-B and FLARM, ... partially with the goal of discouraging folks trying to import and use overseas-FLARM units, which was a bit of an underground idea going around at the time (including a few physical units kicking around). I've been happy to help the Flarm guys on some stuff when asked, but have done far far less there than many others in the USA who wanted to see this technology available for the Soaring Community.

After that UAT promotion that was happening in the PASCO seminars I started giving presentations about glider batteries etc. if folks were worried about battery issues with transponders I certainly wanted them to know enough to have a cogent discussion. And I started to speak up in PASCO seminars etc. about the TCAS compatibility issue, I don't recall that was ever mentioned before, I could be wrong on that, but I never heard it raised. UAT-Out only adoption in the Reno area would gave been a very bad move, getting anything to happen with high tech/aviation/avionics is damn hard, but starting off trying to get something to happen that if it did succeed would be bad, is not a good idea.

The final straw for me with all the UAT hype came the day I was flying out of Minden and the Hawker 800 collided with an ASG-29. I was at the other end of the Pinenut ranges when that happened. And one bizarre response to that was some folks talking up yet again the hope/need to UAT-Out devices. Jesus, TCAS-II equipped business jet, colliding with a glider with it's transponder turned off... what could people *not* get about that? Luckily most folks took that as a need to keep focusing on transponder use in that area.

I doubt the establishment of PowerFLARM rental programs in the USA had any practical help from Bernald, what made that happen was Williams Soaring and generous donors actually stepping up and making that happen.

I don't care if anybody use any particular traffic-awareness technology, but I hope that people at least evaluate what might help them. I'd hate for example to see say the glider exemption for transponders or ADS-B Out to be lost in future, that would be just a horrible waste for many gliders in many locations. In other locations where there are traffic concerns I hope owners/pilots/clubs/FBOs are looking at all the things that it is possible to do to reduce mid-air collision risks. And I care when others keep presenting misinformation/spurious arguments about might prevent some folks adopting what technology aids are practically available today.