On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:44:00 AM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH & 002

I think you meant, "With no altimeter reference", not "Ground reference".

By "Ground Reference" I meant using a known feature on the ground to initiate actions in the pattern: IP at the lake, turn downwind over the farm, base over the gas station, etc. The airfield/landing zone is the only "ground reference" that should be used.

Agree, once the pattern is started, what's the point of looking at the altimeter?

Kirk