On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 1:24:31 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 11:58:46 AM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:

You've hit the nail on the head. The FAA wants us to spend all this money, but then they don't use the data. Right now, under the FAA rules, ATC can watch an airliner heading straight for a transponder equipped VFR aircraft and not even give the airliner a traffic advisory, much less a minor course deviation to avoid a potential collision. Everybody is putting their trust in eyeballs and TCAS.


Care to provide a cite for that statement? Ever heard of flight following - or even used it?

Eyeballs don't work when you are dealing with jet traffic. TCAS also is useless when you have Military jets, who are exempt from ALL the rules, flying around at 400+ knots 500' above the ground without TCAS or ADS-B, and maybe not even an operating transponder.


Wow - so much BS in one paragraph, I'm impressed!. First, if you can't see an airliner coming towards you and avoid it, you should ground yourself (and not drive, either). Even F-16s are visible in plenty of time to avoid if you are actively looking. The real problem is the human eye and brain are not very good at the sustained task of visual lookout for ANYTHING. Second, since TCAS detects transponders, and ALL military aircraft are required to have their transponders ON when operating in joint civilian/military use airspace, TCAS is totally compatible with military jets (and many of the military transports have it also). Third, military aviation has even MORE restrictive rules than civilians, and military aviation is required to comply with civilian rules to the maximum possible when in joint use airspace. The only exception is speed, since some jets need to be above the 250 knot max airspeed limit down low - but that doesn't mean they are blasting around anywhere they want. VR and IR low level routes, along with MOA's, are other areas where some military flying will be fast and low - BUT THAT IS ALL TIGHTLY CONTROLLED AND SCHEDULED, AND YOU CAN FIND OUT WHERE IT IS HAPPENING BY CALLING THE LOCAL FSS! And finally, what military jet doesn't have an operating transponder? Again, ALL mil aircraft (including most UAVs) have transponders. Sure, it could fail inflight, but if it was broken before takeoff, that flight would not go until it was fixed - BECAUSE IT'S REQUIRED BY MILITARY RULES!

Before we have any more FAA mandates, we should insist that all Military jets be equipped with TCAS and ADS-B just like everyone else, and that ATC (both civilian and military) provide active separation services for all IFR aircraft under their control to avoid any transponder or ADS-B OUT equipped VFR aircraft that are visible on their radar screens.


More BS. Do you actually do ANY research before putting out this drivel?

Once everyone (including Military jets) are ADS-B OUT equipped, we will have an environment where low cost ADS-B IN systems can provide very accurate collision warnings to VFR pilots, so we can actively stay out of harms way.

Total, absolute BS. The time delay inherent with the ADS-B system, and the poor coverage at low altitude, makes it pretty useless as a collision avoidance system for military jets. Who, by the way, have a much better system (air-to-air radar, JTIDS, interrogators).

Will any military aircraft ever get ADS-B? Sure, airlifters and transports will probably get 1090ES so they can use international airspace. Fighters? probably not - unless it's a software upgrade to existing Mode-S transponders they now carry.

As usual, Mike, you are totally clueless.

Kirk
66

Kirk:

Maybe YOU should do a little more research before you start flaming people. Please explain to me how I'm suppose to visually see and a avoid a jet that is approaching me from behind at 250 knots?

You might also want to study up on how ADS-B works. All ADS-B OUT (both UAT and 1090ES) equipped aircraft transmit their position once every second. Any aircraft with an ADS-B IN receiver of the same flavor that is in the area will immediately receive this data directly without any time delays.

If an aircraft has a single frequency ADS-B IN receiver, and the conflicting aircraft is transmitting ADS-B OUT on a different frequency, an ADS-B ground station is required to translate the ADS-B OUT transmission to the other frequency. This introduces a 1-2 second delay into the process, which for most aircraft, which are trying to avoid each other by comfortable margins, is not significant. This delay obviously is a problem for gliders flying in close proximity in a gaggle.

A bigger problem is that if either aircraft is out of range of an ADS-B ground station (which can occur in remote areas at low elevations), the two ADS-B aircraft will not see each other. The simple solution to this is to install dual frequency ADS-B IN receivers. The current price delta between single and dual frequency receivers is so small ($200), that it doesn't make any sense to buy a single frequency ADS-B receiver, and I suspect that these units will disappear from the market in the not too distant future.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Keep in mind that you need to be ADS-B OUT equipped to reliably see any traffic data (both TIS-B and ADS-R) that is being transmitted by ADS-B ground stations.