On 7/29/2016 1:10 PM, kirk.stant wrote:

Snip...
So, for gliders, all that is really useable is the second half - the
continuous 180 degree turn to final. As others mention, that is not what is
normally taught, and has some limitations that need to be taken into
consideration; the main one is that it has to be done from a low downwind,
and it happens fast.

I don't comprehend why a circle-from-downwind-to-final landing pattern in a
glider "...has to be done from a low downwind, and it happens fast." I
understand it CAN be done that way, but not why it MUST be done that way.

If Joe Glider Pilot is aiming to produce a threshold landing directly from the
180-degree turn, I suppose an overall lower flight path compared to the case
where he seeks to achieve the same "no straight final leg" threshold landing
directly from the base-to final turn would be the case, simply because the
latter/"tangencies-to-the-circle" flight path pattern would be longer due to
the "uncut corners," and hence the "rectangular path" pattern has greater
distance over which spoilers can be modulated. (The preceding scenario assumes
a "normal downwind offset distance;" the closer in the final, the less
additional distance flown, of course.) But if the goal is "simply" to hit a
pre-selected landing spot on a runway, he can also do "the circling thing" to
final, rolling out short-of and "normally above" the runway onto his final
approach path...which is what all of my "circling patterns" sought to achieve.
IOW, my circling-to-final in the HP allowed me to be able to use less bank
angle-per-unit-time (aka lower roll rate/stick forces) to a high, straight,
final approach path; I wasn't trying to emulate Joe Carrier Pilot in any way
beyond borrowing his 180-degree downwind-to-final turn. Likewise, the
microburst-influenced "fully circling pattern" described in another post, in
actuality, by design, resulted in a (very) short straight final.

Tangentially and as noted elsewhere, for whatever reason, I found no
difference in difficulty judging "howzitgoing" with respect to my glider's
status "in the descent cone" whether circling from downwind to final or using
separate, distinct, 90-degree turns to get there...if anything, the circle
seemed "more natural" to me..but then I preferred playing outfield to infield
as a kid! Either way, every pattern's goal: to arrive on a straight final
"somewhere on the high side" of my ship's theoretical descent cone.

Back to my original puzzlement...am I correct in believing "military approved"
circling approaches essentially do NOT include "a straight final" portion,
a-la the "immediately before touchdown" curving flight path understandably
employed by (e.g.) Pitts biplane pilots as a means of retaining over-the-nose
vision for as long as possible until the runway edges appear on either side of
the nose?

And that is why I think it is actually a useful skill to practice: If you
end up low and tight, you should be able to fly a safe 180 (or 270, or 90)
pattern and land out of it - because you don't have the option of going
around!

"Roger that!" on the go-around-impossible bit. (No mulligans in sailplane
landing patterns!) When I blundered into the sport, the concept of being
unable to "re-do a poor pattern" by going around was a
new/completely-foreign/ignorantly-scary concept to my "power-polluted" (in the
reading sense of things) brain. Upon becoming "stick-time/usefully familiar"
with the flight physics of sport sailplanes, the no-go-around reality quickly
mentally-morphed into "entirely normal and not a big deal"...so long as
reasonable and continuing assessment of "minding the approach store" was part
of the piloting package. It was immediately clear to me "an easily repeatable"
landing pattern was the primary tool in minding the store.

And "Roger that!" on being able to safely do (or more accurately, salvage, if
previous inattention/screwups have contributed, sardonic chuckle) low
patterns. Following "licensure," safely expanding one's flight envelope surely
is the name of the aviation game! So - where do I go to practice departures
from controlled flight *in* my landing pattern?

Bob W.