In article ,
Guy Alcala wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

It is possible that the IAF were also carrying ALE-40 or similar
locally produced chaff/flare dispensers. The ALE-40 blisters on the
trailing edge of the side of the pylon might have been the problem for
the shoulder mounted AIM-9s.

We didn't have to remove the ALE-40s from the pylons when they loaded
Sidewinders (early 1980s).

I thought of that, but it's impossible to tell from the available photos
if ALE-40s were present -- you need an almost head-on shot of an I/B
pylon, or else no tanks/ordnance on the O/B pylons if the photo is from
the side.

If you can get a ground shot, you could usually tell if there was chaff
on the plane from the safety pin ribbons hanging down at the back of the
pylon - nothing else on the pylons was that far back that needed pins.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of F-4s with TERs, AIM-9
launchers _and_ ALE-40s on the I/Bs (the AIM-9 launch shoes
definitely clear the dispenser; I assume the missile tail fins would
also), so it appears that the problem isn't physical clearance,
although I suppose there might be safety limits due to the proximity
of the missile(s) motor nozzle to the pyrotechnics in the ALE-40.

The casing of the ALE-40 was streamlined, far enough back, and thick
enough that a second of flame from a rocket motor shouldn't have caused
any issues, especially since the Sidewinders were further out than the
dispensers. The box was only a foot or so tall, about six inches
through, tapered, and the carts were pretty nicely sealed (and
electrically fired).

Here's a couple of pics of the master dispenser on the left side with a
flare adapter mounted:

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/1340.html
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/1341.html

Here's one of an F-4F, with live Sidewinders (but no flares loaded):

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/2992.html

You can tell there's no flares on the dispenser because the flare
adapter is visible between the top two rear fins on the closer AIM-9
(and no safety pin, either).

However, ISTR that such shots tend to be of the airshow/museum
"everything we might ever _think_ of putting on an a/c" variety, so I
don't know if such photos represent an operationally allowed loadout.
Anyone know if AIM-9s were allowed to be fired if you had
chaff/flares in the ALE-40s?

What good would a chaff/flare system be if you could only use it if you
gave up your short-range missiles?

I'm pretty sure the times we took the dispensers off were for carrying
missiles with really large tail fins, or for long-distance flights to
clean up the airframe a bit. We didn't remove them that often, and we
flew Sidewinders (or at least training AIM-9) all of the time.

Well, that's not *exactly* right - for a while, the Powers That Be
decided to yank the dispensers off of the planes whenever they didn't
"need" them, and put them back when they were firing chaff or practicing
using the system (the stepper motors/switches were inside of the
outboard dispenser boxes, controlled from the panel in the cockpit, and
the system wouldn't work at *all* if the pylon units weren't on the
plane). After a lot of overtime for the sheet metal guys (those
interior pylon nutplates were *not* designed for regular
removal/replacement and were a stone cold pain to replace), they decided
the dispensers could stay on the planes until otherwise needed.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.