Denyav wrote in message ...
Ah yes the USA is the source of all evil, but wait a moment, that means
there will be a disinformation campaign about this, one of the best ways
to hide this is to accuse the USA of being the source of all evil, since
that obscures the "real" events.

US is NOT the sole source of all evil,others tried and still try similar
things,for example Reichstag fire,but the difference is that the US was and is
worlds #1 in this issue by a big margin.

To prove this absurd claim the movie Pearl Harbor is cited as
proof, the actions of a fictional character in a work of fiction.

Nice auto repeat of my words, helps break them up.

It is blindingly obvious when you use this sort of logic

Who

hide this is to accuse the USA of being the source of all evil, since
that obscures the "real" events.

It is blindingly obvious when you use this sort of logic

Lets go back,for example,to the year 1898.

What was the non "real" event?
1)Sinking of USS Maine
2)Using the event Nr.1 as a batttle cry to get popular support for an empire
building war
3)Emerging from Spanish-American war as a major power.

You forgot the fact the US did not emerge from the Spanish American
war as a major power in military terms, it lacked the navy.

You forgot item 4) the conspiracy theory around the start of the war
and the claims the Maine was deliberately sabotaged by the US.
The non real event.

You see the fact the IJN attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941 is known
and understood. The added "facts" of a conspiracy are the
contributions of people who cannot cope with reality. Go on, fight
the everlasting conspiracy, award yourself medals for fighting the
terrifying enemy, all in complete safety, since there is nothing to
fight, but go on murdering the truth for personal gain. Win the non
real event, since no one else is competing.

enyav is a CIA/FBI/ABC/CBS/DKNY/USN/USAAF, oh what the
heck, AAA (many organisations deleted) to ZZZZZ plant. Here to
try and improve the reputation of the US by making absolutely
absurd claims about it, so no one believes the real claims.

Actually you dont need to be on anybodys payroll, 99,99 % of information is
available to public if you know how to find them.

Yes folks, understand, look for your facts in Hollywood movies, just
add the words you want to historical documents and so on. It is
quite simple, since unwelcome reality can be wished away just
decide the preferred outcome and adjust the preferred facts
accordingly.

Denyav is a CIA/FBI/ABC/CBS/DKNY/USN/USAAF, oh what the
heck, AAA (many organisations deleted) to ZZZZZ plant. Here to
try and improve the reputation of the US by making absolutely
absurd claims about it, so no one believes the real claims.

By the way note below the talk is all about the missing evidence,
but we are told 99.99% is available.

Simple isn't it, remember no proof is absolute proof, truth must pass
the "I like it" test and so on.

Yeah right,for example if White House destroys phone records there is no proof
that such calls were made unless somebody on other side of Atlantic
declassifies their own records.
But you can still control damage by asserting that they were lost accidentally.

Note by the way this seems to have suddenly appeared, and just
ignore the various phone company records as well. Both British
and American.

Deleted text, on the Congressional moves,

"
http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/cpqu...el=TOC_545749&

Go look up the other items included, the Indianapolis sinking and
the waiver on time limits for decorations. "

And the request was to
advance the ranks at which Kimmel and Short were retired at.

Real radical policy change stuff.

Check out hearing transcripts:
Http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/docs/texts/kimmel.htm
Accusations aimed at the power center of US government not at periphery.

By the way the claim trying to be defended is the idea Kimmel hurled
such accusations at FDR etc. Instead we have the family members
putting the best case forward as to why Washington deserves some
of the blame.

The transcript indicates the accusations were the usual ones, the
people in Washington made the errors (not the conspiracy) and
the people in Pearl paid the price. Note the transcript is not about
prior knowledge of the attack, only the blame game afterwards.
However when you want to invent fiction just change this to
conspiracy accusations.

By the way in the above text Professor Gannon claims 1,000 PBY
patrol planes were sent to the British pre Pearl Harbor when he
calculates Pearl needed 200 for all round patrols but only had 49.
The British (meaning RAF, RCAF. RNZAF and RAAF) received
somewhere around 3/4 of this figure for the entire war.

The US produced a whole 410 Patrol bombers in 1941, up from
34 in 1940, 22 Martin Mariners (PBM), 6 Consolidated Coranados
(PB2Y) and 416 Catalinas (PBY) 1940 to 1941. The PBY had been
in production pre war, with around 200 delivered by the end of 1939.

Of course you need to remove from the totals the 41 patrol bombers
delivered in December 1941 and probably the 54 delivered in October
and November 1941 as not being available to sent to Hawaii in time.
Also noting the pre war deliveries, starting in 1936, were lower powered
versions, 1,800 to 2,000 HP versus 2,400 for the 1940 on versions

So we have around 600 patrol bombers with the necessary range built
and available to the USN and everyone else, less the attrition of normal
flying, 200 of which are needed for Pearl Harbor. Presumably then over
200 are needed for the Philippines, then comes the U-boat threat to the
US east coast plus Panama then comes the British requirement. The
British are useful, they give feedback on actual combat operations. Do
not forget aircraft for training operations as well plus the inevitable losses.

Kimmel is allowed "lack of resources" but Washington is not. Nice use
of logic.

So what's that say 600 aircraft, less around 1/2 for obsolete types, for
training and attrition, and we have 300 suitable aircraft. Pearl wants
200, the Philippines wants more, the east coast wants some, the
British want some, the training system wants more so it can up the
training rate and so on.

Pearl Harbor was given 49 aircraft, enough to continuously cover an
arc of 90 degrees according to Professor Gannon, or the approaches
from the Japanese mandated islands. How many were actually flying
such searches on the 5th, 6th and 7th?

The deleted claim was the Naval Board of Inquiry report was never
made public. This has to be ignored, since we know the outcome.

We know that was the only panel that allowed Kimmel to defend himself,present
his own case and evidences.

It was an inquiry not a trial. And I note the change of subject, from
the claims made about the inquiry to the procedures it followed.

We also know after considering presented evidences Court came to conclusion
that Kimmel should be exonorated.

The inquiry released its findings in August 1945 according to the supplied
URL.

But we dont know the actual evidences.

Presumably this means you have not bothered to look it up, it was not
in the Pearl Harbor movie.

We also dont know why Forrestal and King overrode court decision despite the
evidence.

Gone looking for this evidence? Just jump to conspiracy theory, instead
of something like they decided it looked like the Navy was being kind to
its own.

Deleted text,

"Putting words into Kimmel's mouth now I see. Kimmel's defence was
that he was deprived of information he needed, mainly messages from
the local Japanese consulate and timely warning of the time the last
Japanese message was supposed to be presented to the US. There
was nothing said about senior leaders wanting the attack to happen."

On claims the inquiries were rigged,

"I like this, if the one entity argument is followed then the claimed let
off for Kimmel is the rigged result, it was an all Navy affair."

On using Pearl Harbor the movie as a source,

"I see "based on real characters", and I presume the transcripts of these
claimed conversations are available? I presume you have traced the
people the pilots and nurse were

Actually the movie completely ignored the role British intelligence which was
far more capable than US at that time.

Ah yes the movie Pearl Harbor is your guide to US intelligence
actions in 1941, but wait, there is more, since the movie is a joke
on this point the need is to imply the British did it. Just ignore the
way the British had more pressing matters on their hands, that
the US was leading the way against Japanese diplomatic traffic
and the British and US were sharing IJN code recovery work.
So what one knew the other did as well.

Please tell us what court Kimmel was supposed to be in.

Kimmel was in the court which he supposed to be in.This court "exhonorated"
Kimmel but the decision of Court which Kimmel supposed to be in,was overturned
by Forrestal-King duo.

Yes folks, Kimmel was where he should be, no matter where you
go, there you are.

Note by the way the attempt to paint the inquiry as the absolutely right
result, despite claiming not to have seen the evidence presented to it.
The USN is the straight organisation, despite the fact it would have
been doing the decoding of those wonder messages, it is the one
that holds the "truth", everything else is wrong. The conspiracy does
not apply to the naval inquiry, it could never have been rigged of
course, it has the "right" result, so everything else was rigged.

What did the inquiry clear Kimmel of, dereliction of duty, lack of
judgement?

Standard conspiracy stuff, the right answer is out there, somewhere,
pick your preferred outcome.

Previously before the next text was another standard claim about
conspiracies, as usual the claim has to be deleted and the subject changed.

If Kimmel was that psychic, describing 2001, he had no need for warnings,
his telepathy should have been enough.

Kimmel surely was not a physic but US PSYOPs getting more and more
like reruns of the same movie.

Translation Denyav is in flashback mode.

By the way the above logic implies the Japanese could have invaded
the Philippines, Wake and Guam, killing and capturing Americans and
the US would have allowed this. The US did not need Pearl Harbor to

deleted text,

"enter the Pacific war. The IJN started sinking US merchant ships just
before the attack went in."

Even tough Manila received warnings that Honolulu never received,
MacArthur got defeated and humiliated and lost much more men and
equipment than Kimmel and Short.

I like this, especially since I posted text showing how the War Warning
messages were the same around the Pacific. And MacArthur certainly
did not lose more men and equipment that the people in Hawaii in the
opening day of the war.

What I really like is the duck, unable to answer the text, so change the
subject.

"By the way the above logic implies the Japanese could have invaded
the Philippines, Wake and Guam, killing and capturing Americans and
the US would have allowed this. The US did not need Pearl Harbor to
enter the Pacific war. The IJN started sinking US merchant ships just
before the attack went in."

I wonder why nobody demoted him. I wonder

Try and read history, it provides answers like, 1) too far away to know
exactly what was going on, 2) MacArthur controlling much of the
information flow, 3) The low expectations about holding the Philippines,
4) The reality moving against MacArthur would provoke a reaction in
Washington, being seen as an attempt by FDR to rid himself of an
unwanted General.

Deleted text,

It would be nice to know the source of the claimed Kimmel words, it
seems his lifetime's output is being searched for any claim he made,
no proof offered.

Remarkable line being run, the US is the source of all evil but the US
is so good, so amazing, it cannot be defeated, only betrayed from
within. No one can launch an unexpected attack on the US, it sees
and knows all, I must ask the US where my favourite pen has ended up.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.