deleted text,

"As usual most of my words are deleted, new tactic time though, simply
lie about what has been written. Denyav has decided to go back to
a message I wrote on June 14, bypassing the JN-25 information I
posted more recently. I await with interest his retrieval of information
I sent in say 1990 as another desperate tactic to avoid actually answering.

"I expect him to heroically delete my reply and the heroically repeat he
is repeating his same junk. Two heroic acts means another self
awarded medal."


Denyav wrote in message ...
The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

On plain English that means the Japanase continued to blunder away JN25 B
continuously for two months.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

In Plain English you will continue to deny what really happened in the days
prior to Pearl Harbor.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. I am still waiting for proof
about what I am supposed to have dated the McCollum memo. I
like the way Denyav assumes because he needs to hide the truth
the same applies to others.

Heck even some main actors of Pearl Harbor,like Stimson and Churchill etc
admitted it.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue, he needs to
pretend what people say.

You are really very good in hiding reality behind too many irrelevant words.

In plain English Denyav needs to delete the evidence.

What did you say now?
US stopped recovering codes in March when only 5% codes were recovered.

"If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941."

This is great, this shows Denyav's techniques so well.

Firstly changing the random numbers, additives, into code values.
The random numbers, additives, are used to disguise the code
groups and need to be removed first, no additives no code groups.

Secondly ignoring the fact the "5" version of the code stopped being
used in January 1941 and the USN stopped working on the A version
in around March 1941, since the IJN decided to stop using the A code
in December 1940. Just try and pretend I am running some sort of
line the USN stopped work at that time. Above all do not even begin
to understand that Washington was weeks behind current intercepts
because they were mailed in from the Pacific.

Thirdly changing the subject. Move away from the fact that if the
failure to change additive books compromised the B code it
must have compromised the A code, since the US had only 5%
of the A code book when work ended on it around March 1941.

First of all do you believe to what you say?

Denyav is admitting here he does not believe what he posts,
and assumes others have the same tactics

Everbody knew that US and Japan were moving toward a confrontation in Pasific
and and US had a golden opportunity to recover all japanese naval codes,and
suddenly US stopped work on code recovering in March only after a couple of
months work!!!!.

If everybody knew there was going to be a war then diplomacy
becomes rather irrelevant.

Yes folks, Denyav needs to reply to what he wants to reply to, not
to the facts. The US stopped work on the A version about 4 months
after the IJN ceased using it, moving to the B version.

Code recovering did not stop in March,it did not stop on Dec.7 either.

Strange that, but Denyav needs to go off and pretend about what I said.

According to your data US recovered roughly 5000 codes by March
which seems to be correct.

Thanks for a really great laugh, they US recovered around 5,000 random
number additives of the 5 additive book, out of 50,000, the additive book
that had been in use for months before the A to B codebook change over.
This gives an idea of just how little the allies could read in early 1941
since the additives needed to be removed before the code groups could
be looked at.

But even with 5000 recoveries you can read the most of the messages.

Yes folks, now having invented recoveries move to the next leap of logic.

"A large code as many as 55000 values ,but in actual practice ,such was
streotyped nature of the text,7000 recoveries permitted almost complete
decyription,and many pattern messages could be read practicaly entire with as
few as 1500 meanings"(History of OP-20-GYP-1,NSA)

Trouble is folks, the key messages were not transmitted and were
anything but routine messages, even if the above statement is true.

Yes folks, Holy Writ time, no proof offered about what they could read.
By the way if it was 90% by December 1941 can you explain how this
percentage went down by April/May 1942, when the allies were trying
to figure out Midway and Coral Sea? Or that the all knowing intelligence
system missed the IJN battleships coming out at Midway and the way
the IJN carriers came into the Coral Sea? In the latter case it meant
the US carriers found themselves with the Japanese airbases in front
and the Japanese carriers behind, hence the way the tanker and
destroyer supposed to be safely in the rear were sunk first.

How about the fact just before midway the allies were intercepting
around 60% of IJN traffic and decoding about 20% of the intercepted
messages, plus gaining some parts of around 70% of messages.

deleted text,

"As of 20 April 1945 the USN found it had 35,761 additives of JN-25B7,
the version in use 1 August to 3 December 1941, with the probability
several hundred might be bad. So 70% of the additives were thought
to be known, this was upped to 47,500 by August 1945, as part of the
reworking of the messages. As of 1 December 1941 the USN thought
it knew 3,800 code group meanings.

Yes folks, the fact the IJN used the old additive book told the allies
the basic code system was still in place, 5 digit code groups with
valid numbers divisible by 3.

There was no need to worry about basic information like say the
new valid code groups were now divisible by say 2.

Just ignore the new code introduced auxiliary tables, two meanings
for the same code group, and stopped having the code groups in
alphabetical order. Just pretend the IJN radioed the code book
to the allies.

So now the lies begin. Firstly the failure to update the random number
book enabled the allies to confirm the basic system was still in place.
The valid code groups were 5 digit numbers divisible by 3. Secondly
the allies did not have all the valid random numbers, additives, used
to disguise the valid code groups, thirdly the Japanese did not put
out messages containing all 55,000 valid code group meanings in
the two months, December 1940 and January 1941.

If you would like to know the exact code groups recovered it was
"Unfinished or Continuous" [i.e., a running tally]
April 1, 1941: "approximately 300 values recovered"
May 1, 1941: "approximately 400 values recovered"
June 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
July 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
August 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Sept 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Oct 1, 1941: "approximately 2400 values recovered"

"Completed during October 1941"
Nov 1, 1941: "600 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,000 values as of
this date]

"Completed during November 1941"
Dec 1, 1941: "800 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,800 values as of
this date]

"Unfinished or continuous"
Jan 1, 1942: "Approximately 6,180 values recovered"

Remembering some previously assigned values could be changed
by later discoveries.

So by the end of December 1941 the allies thought they had around 7%
of the code book recovered.

ou see folks, conspiracy land would have the Red Cross must have
known, after all there they were preparing for air raids. Note that in
March 1941 the IJN attack was still in the is it possible discussion
phase between senior leaders.

For a different view please check out:
http://www.usni.org/Naval History/Articles/NHborgquist6.htm

Even without the typo, this comes up as page not found for me.

Yes change the subject time. Try and defend the first Churchill
quote and wish away the second.

Is quoting from one page and wishing away others a priviledge given only to
Gov't employees? I did not know that.

This is very funny, either Denyav is admitting he is a government
employee, since he is quoting from one page and wishing away
or we have the usual fun stuff. Invent my job, wrongly of course. I
should send in a list of pay and conditions requirements.

the specific attacks, not the
war as a whole. Drag the Red Cross leadership into the conspiracy
claims.

You are very smart really,Red Cross of early 40s had more in common
with FEMA of 2001 ,than the Red Cross of 2001.

Yes folks, change the subject, since the Red Cross decided to
prepare in case Hawaii was attacked by air they must have been
in on the conspiracy right. After all if any arm of the US government
does the same the claim is it was part of a conspiracy.

By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the

Thats seems to be big problem for the custodians of Pearl Harbor conspiracy.
The public interest in books and websites telling them what their Great Leaders
did not and do not tell is skyrocketing specially after 9/11.

Denyav is proudly announcing he does not have a clue about
book sales.

I think now its pretty safe assume that so called conspiracy theories are now
becoming mainstream theories accepted by the most of the people.

Translation Denyav is delusional, as can be seen from this posting.

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and

What Stimson said is irrelevant,

Never mentions Pearl Harbor.

What Churchill said is irrelevent.

Notes all messages the allies decoded were released just after the war.

What Congressman Dies said is irrelevant.

Simply put if he had the information why didn't he release it on
the floor of Congress.

What Joseph Grew said is irrelevant.

The IJN had just been given the results of the Taranto raid. If Grew
really knew then one of only about 2 or 3 IJN officers talked, since
it was still Yamamoto's idea, not a plan.

In case people are wondering Denyav is mining the conspiracy
site of Mark Willey, the name he dare not utter, presumably he will
endorse the claim the US was trying to lose Coral Sea and Midway
as well and that the US never gave Pearl Harbor any help cracking
JN-25, the unit there had to start from scratch in December 1941.

There are more names to be added from the page if Denyav wants
to continue this line, you know the world is flat because some people
say it is.

Willey is like Stinnett, the evidence does not match the claims.

What Haan said is irrelevant.

I presume this is the Kilsoo Haan that is supposed to be a member of
the Sino-Korean People's League. Apparently there was a Korean
who is supposed to have seen the plans. We will ignore the problems
of a Korean making it in the IJN, think something worse than US race
relations in the 1930s. Presumably you should ask the person who is
claimed to be given the information, Senator Guy Gillette, who seems
to have never put the information out on the floor of the Senate. Of
course FDR is apparently told in a private, no notes meeting.

What US Army Gen.Rhorpe said is irrelevant.

Which Rhorpe? I presume the claimed messages sent by General
Thorpe. The problem is quite simple, the Japanese diplomatic
system did not know about the attack on Pearl Harbor, rather hard
to credit a cracked diplomatic message with having the information.

Instead what was intercepted was the "winds message" set up,
the open code to be sent if communications were cut telling the
Japanese about who the Japanese were about to be at war with.

See, Thorpe, Elliott R. East Wind Rain: The Intimate Account of an
Intelligence Officer in the Pacific, 1939-1949. Boston: Gambit, 1969.

What Popov said is irrelevant.

Given he was no where near the place, and the Germans did not
attack the target.

What Journalist Leib said is irrelevant.

Which Leib? The one who is supposed to have been shown a
message by Hull? Apparently the one the IJN couriered to
Nagumo. No evidence of course. Oh yes, apparently the New
York Times on 8 December 1941 is supposed to have published
an article claiming the, presumably Pearl Harbor, attack was
known about, time and place. Amazing how New York seems
to have missed that, similar for the rest of the US, at the time
and later during the various post war hearings.

What Capt.Rannefft of Dutch Navy said is irrelevant.

His diary makes it clear he was not talking about the Pearl
Harbor strike despite attempts to claim otherwise, after
some enhancements to the text.

Countless others are irrelevant.

Denyav, Denyav, Denyav, it is marvellous how you can count yourself
several dozen times.

Now try the IJN and USN people dealing with the strike and the
many histories that conclude no conspiracy, plus all the USN
and IJN documents showing the same conclusion.

So whats relevant?
Of course the words of Pearl Harbor conspiracy custodians!!.

Actually I have not quoted the conspiracy custodians, that
firstly requires a conspiracy to take custody of. Meantime
Denyav quotes the conspiracy custodians, the ones who have
custody of the conspiracy to lie about the events of 1941, people
like Stinnett and Willey.

No wonder books,movies and websites telling what the custodians try to hide are
experiencing a boom.

The boom is the theories exploding in their face, think duck as
in Daffy.

Simply put,people do not want to hear lies only any longer.

Denyav however will continue.

Too bad for the custodians.

This is because it is really possible to die laughing.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.