Most of this message is simply deleted text put back in.
deleted text,
"As usual most of my words are deleted, new tactic time though, simply
lie about what has been written. Denyav has decided to go back to
a message I wrote on June 14, bypassing the JN-25 information I
posted more recently. I await with interest his retrieval of information
I sent in say 1990 as another desperate tactic to avoid actually answering.
"I expect him to heroically delete my reply and the heroically repeat he
is repeating his same junk. Two heroic acts means another self
awarded medal."
yes folks, if the theory requires a pink elephant driving a BMW
while towing a trailer upon which a giraffe is doing the hula dance
Denyav will announce elephants go to slimming clubs, wear lots
of pink make up and can drive, while giraffes are native to Hawaii.
Denyav wrote in message ...
This should be good, the attempt to imply I am paid to spend so
much time laughing will no doubt continue.
Surely you are not paid to protect official position.
Yes folks, the full retreat starts.
deleted text,
Denyav has decided this is my work it seems, which is great, I
will get his address and send him the bill.
Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. I am still waiting for proof
about what I am supposed to have dated the McCollum memo. I
like the way Denyav assumes because he needs to hide the truth
the same applies to others.
Translation Denyav needs to pretend he has people agreeing with
him even when they do not. Churchill, Stimson and Hoover for a start,
Dulles without any attempt to
They do not agree with me,but I do agree with what they say.
Thats a small but important difference.
Churchill, all the decoded messages placed in the public arena.
Stimson, the Japanese must fire first. Dulles a claimed quote,
Hoover no quote at all presented.
See any Pearl Harbor conspiracies there?
provide the evidence. "countless" is
defined as Denyav counting himself multiple time, 1, 2 3, many.
I quoted them several times in my posts too but according to you they were
"irrelevant" How soon you forgat that.
Translation Denyav will not allow the quotes to exist in the same
message where the flaws in them are pointed out. Oh yes, the
"irrelevant" claim is simply another invention.
Translation Denyav will continue to try and smear, using his ideas of
insults of course. He has announced he is not paid to push his jokes,
which is not surprising, those who know the truth would not pay to push
Deleted text,
lies and those pushing the lies would not pay for such mediocre efforts.
Note now the absurd attempt to try and avoid the fact he has no
long range "what does that person do" device.
Apparently many sharing these ideas,people know that what their officials are
telling them is not always the truth.
Translation if a person in public life tells a lie about being given
a speeding ticket, they must be clearly responsible for mass murder.
Yes folks, if the evidence does not fit ignore it.
The evidences that you find find "irrelevant" could easily qualify for the
above.
Yes folks, Denyav tells us he ignores the evidence that does
not fit.
Simply I never said that, another claim without proof.
I guess you do not even read your own posts.
This is really funny, Denyav cannot provide any evidence, all
he can keep providing is the fiction he prefers to the truth.
Note how the text on what "I never said" is deleted, it has
to be since Denyav cannot back the claim.
Denyav is having trouble coping with the idea the work on the A code
stopped after it went out of service while work picked up on the B code.
An other way of backpedalling or accepting code recovery work has never been
stopped.BTW hiding behind terms is a pretty common way.
Denyav is having trouble coping with the idea the work on the A code
stopped after it went out of service while work picked up on the B code.
By the way folks Denyav is going to keep announcing he has no
idea about the code, changing recoveries of random numbers
into recovery of the meanings of code groups. The allies knew
around 5,000 random numbers from the 5 additive book, which
deleted text,
"ended use on 31 January 1941. They had 300 B code group
meanings assigned by 1 April 1941. Different things.
deleted text, on the idea the failure to change additives compromised
the B code.
"If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.
Thanks for a really great laugh, they US recovered around 5,000 random
number additives of the 5 additive book, out of 50,000, the additive book
that had been in use for months before the A to B codebook change over.
This gives an idea of just how little the allies could read in early 1941
since the additives needed to be removed before the code groups could
be looked at.
This is great, this shows Denyav's techniques so well.
Firstly changing the random numbers, additives, into code values.
The random numbers, additives, are used to disguise the code
groups and need to be removed first, no additives no code groups.
Lots of detractors included to this part of message so obviously there is
something to hide here.
Yes folks, Denyav cannot cope with the facts, they must have a
hidden message in them.
Lets summarize your own position:
1)You said that codes are something like a special language.I agree.
2)You said the recovering of the codes is something like learning a
language,slow and time consuming.Agreed.
3)Now you are trying to defend your not defendable position by hiding an
alphabet soup.
Yes folks, Denyav now announces he cannot cope with the facts.
4)If we continue to use language analogy:JN25A and B are not different
languages they are different dialects of the same language. But you are
trying to sell them as as if they were different languages
Sigh, A code, groups in order, that is alphabetical and numerical,
one meaning per code group.
B code, groups scrambled, 2 meanings for most of the code groups,
auxiliary tables for key items.
The "different dialects" is basically another attempt to try the
"easily breakable" line.
5)Lets continue to use language analogy:
How many words are there in any language,for example English?
How many words do you use everday?
Very small percentage I guess.
Just ignore the fact the wonder messages claimed to be intercepted
were using the unusual language, and in any case the messages were
not sent by radio.
That was exactly the point of Safford when he asserted that 7000
codes were enough to read almost all JN25B coded messages,
even though JN25B had almost 55000 codes.
1) It was not Safford.
2) It appears the quote is about a specific case in 1943.
Now you are trying to use alphabet as detractor and trying to hide the fact
that US had just before PH had 10000 JN25B codes in the hand,which was
,according to Safford,much more than he needed to read the most of JN25B
dispatces !.
Yes folks, Denyav needs a fact so he creates one, the number of groups
recovered was around 3,800 to 1 December 1941.
6)Now Midway,its enlightening to see that the custodians of official version
are actually challenging the official version to defend their hard to defend
positions.
Yes folks Denyav now needs to invent a whole new history. Apparently
the fact the contribution allied intercepts and code breaking made has
been known for decades has to be rewritten.
On many issues the officials and historians disagree,but Midway is not one of
them,there is a consensus among historians that the outcome of Midway is the
product the superior intelligence.
The ability of the USN to read the IJN codes gave them the best
chance yet to ambush the IJN.
So According to your assertions US intellingence that was unable to recover
enough codes in 12 months prior to Pearl Harbor to read Japanase messages but After Pearl Harbor US intelligence managed to achive
within a few months what it could not do in one year before PH!.
Yes folks Denyav does not have a clue, and needs to debate himself
to avoid the facts. Reality says the allies knew how JN-25B worked
in December 1941 but lacked enough code group meanings to read
the messages. That changed in 1942 when the allies threw more
resources at the problem, using the techniques developed in 1941
to crack the code.
deleted text,
"Secondly ignoring the fact the "5" version of the code stopped being
used in January 1941 and the USN stopped working on the A version
in around March 1941, since the IJN decided to stop using the A code
in December 1940. Just try and pretend I am running some sort of
line the USN stopped work at that time. Above all do not even begin
to understand that Washington was weeks behind current intercepts
because they were mailed in from the Pacific.
Thirdly changing the subject. Move away from the fact that if the
failure to change additive books compromised the B code it
must have compromised the A code, since the US had only 5%
of the A code book when work ended on it around March 1941."
How did they do that? Maybe now famous outer space aliens helped them to
recover codes after PH?.
Yes folks, Denyav tries to announce that the code was compromised
in 2 months in December 1940 and January 1941, but now has to
turn around and say the allies, with more resources, starting from a
much higher level of knowledge, could not compromise the code in
6 months. You see for Denyav to be right the allies went backwards
in 1942 when it came to reading JN-25. Simple really, just invent facts
and delete the problems.
Deleted text,
"So tell us all please what A code values did the US recover in say
the second half of 1941?
Yes folks, Holy Writ time, no proof offered about what they could read.
By the way if it was 90% by December 1941 can you explain how this
percentage went down by April/May 1942, when the allies were trying
to figure out Midway and Coral Sea? Or that the all knowing intelligence
system missed the IJN battleships coming out at Midway and the way
the IJN carriers came [into the Coral Sea behind the US carriers.]
yes folks, Denyav cannot answer how come his claims mean the
US could read less in 1942 than in 1941 so it is time to change
the subject.
The reason the allies could read more in 1942 was quite simple,
they had recovered more of the code. I like the idea what was
possible in May 1942 is supposed to be less than November
1941 despite 6 months more work. Oh yes the USN went onto
trying to read IJN messages immediately on 18 March 1942,
it was then they had enough of the code to try this.
Yes folks, just announce in effect the US went backwards
in code reading ability in 1941 to fit the conspiracy.
Deleted text,
"How about the fact just before midway the allies were intercepting
around 60% of IJN traffic and decoding about 20% of the intercepted
messages, plus gaining some parts of around 70% of messages.
"As of 20 April 1945 the USN found it had 35,761 additives of JN-25B7,
the version in use 1 August to 3 December 1941, with the probability
several hundred might be bad. So 70% of the additives were thought
to be known, this was upped to 47,500 by August 1945, as part of the
reworking of the messages. As of 1 December 1941 the USN thought
it knew 3,800 code group meanings.
Yes folks, the fact the IJN used the old additive book told the allies
the basic code system was still in place, 5 digit code groups with
valid numbers divisible by 3.
There was no need to worry about basic information like say the
new valid code groups were now divisible by say 2.
Just ignore the new code introduced auxiliary tables, two meanings
for the same code group, and stopped having the code groups in
alphabetical order. Just pretend the IJN radioed the code book
to the allies.
So now the lies begin. Firstly the failure to update the random number
book enabled the allies to confirm the basic system was still in place.
The valid code groups were 5 digit numbers divisible by 3. Secondly
the allies did not have all the valid random numbers, additives, used
to disguise the valid code groups, thirdly the Japanese did not put
out messages containing all 55,000 valid code group meanings in
the two months, December 1940 and January 1941.
If you would like to know the exact code groups recovered it was
"Unfinished or Continuous" [i.e., a running tally]
April 1, 1941: "approximately 300 values recovered"
May 1, 1941: "approximately 400 values recovered"
June 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
July 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
August 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Sept 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Oct 1, 1941: "approximately 2400
"Completed during October 1941"
Nov 1, 1941: "600 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,000 values as of
this date]
"Completed during November 1941"
Dec 1, 1941: "800 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,800 values as of
this date]
"Unfinished or continuous"
Jan 1, 1942: "Approximately 6,180 values recovered"
Remembering some previously assigned values could be changed
by later discoveries.
So by the end of December 1941 the allies thought they had around 7%
of the code book recovered.
By the way people will be happy to know the quote assigned
to Safford (about the number of code groups needed) was
written by someone else, and appears to be related to a
situation in 1943 where units were sending very standardised
messages. Hard to tell exactly given how badly the quote is
transcribed.
Yeah right,His words are irrelevant too.
Yes folks, instead of providing the quote in context, with proper
author Denyav will simply ignore the problems.
When did the IJN attack US territory again after 1942?
Where did the new IJN carriers come from?
Replace IJN with OBL,japanese pilots with Atta&Co,
replace Japanese planes with Boeings.
Yes folks, since the US railways used steam engines in 1941
the US railways use steam engines in 2001. Same logic.
Thanks for admitting the conspiracy people do not match the evidence.
Thanks for admitting the official people do indeed produce the evidence.
Yes the official people do produce the evidence, all non conspiracy.
deleted text,
"Ah a good laugh does wonders for the soul. Apparently Senators
and Congressman, some major opponents of FDR, failed to make
the evidence public and now this is apparently because they
always meet behind closed doors. Presumably never let out onto
the floor of the house etc.
Ah yes, so he kept the secret until he died, allowing the system to
railroad the commanders etc. etc. Dies was a very anti communist
person, the claimed information could be used to discredit much
of the democrat administration even post war, but strange to tell
the claimed information never surfaces until people are dead.
"Yes folks, change the subject, since the Red Cross decided to
prepare in case Hawaii was attacked by air they must have been
in on the conspiracy right. After all if any arm of the US government
does the same the claim is it was part of a conspiracy.
Translation Denyav denies the tide is in, the air is just a little wet.
By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the typos though.
Yes folks, remember the conspiracy to cause Pearl Harbor must
have happened pre war and that Churchill says all the decoded
messages were released.
In case people are wondering Denyav is mining the conspiracy
site of Mark Willey, the name he dare not utter, presumably he will
endorse the claim the US was trying to lose Coral Sea and Midway
as well and that the US never gave Pearl Harbor any help cracking
JN-25, the unit there had to start from scratch in December 1941.
There are more names to be added from the page if Denyav wants
to continue this line, you know the world is flat because some people
say it is.
Willey is like Stinnett, the evidence does not match the claims.
Which Rhorpe? I presume the claimed messages sent by General
Thorpe. The problem is quite simple, the Japanese diplomatic
system did not know about the attack on Pearl Harbor, rather hard
to credit a cracked diplomatic message with having the information.
Instead what was intercepted was the "winds message" set up,
the open code to be sent if communications were cut telling the
Japanese about who the Japanese were about to be at war with.
See, Thorpe, Elliott R. East Wind Rain: The Intimate Account of an
Intelligence Officer in the Pacific, 1939-1949. Boston: Gambit, 1969.
No, the IJN officers present told people about the communications.
This is the trouble for the conspiracy the IJN keeps shooting it down."
h yes, Leib waited until after Hull was dead before telling the
world of his claims. Does this make Hull a conspirator? If so
a stupid one by letting the claimed secret out?
It was no secret that Hull was not very fond of FDR-Stimson-Marshall trios'
plans and also it was very well known that Leib was a close friend of Hull.
The Motive of leakage to Leib was probably to warn Japanase but who knows?
Yes folks, just ignore the fact Leib waited until no one could
contradict his claims, the fact the signal claimed being
discussed was never sent by radio, the fact Leib is supposed
to have written about it in the New York Times on 8 December
1941 but it seems no one noticed, a the time, during the war
or after the war. Oh yes I like the way Hull is put as an outsider
to the FDR-Stimson-Marshall "plot". Marshall is interesting,
much more to do with his post war activities, after all Admiral
Stark was head of the Navy, the service actually trying to
decode IJN signals, not the Army, but FDR-Stimson-Stark
does not work because the objective is to smear.
So let us understand this correctly Denyav is accusing Hull of
giving away one of the US's greatest military secrets, the ability
to read IJN codes,
(Dutch Captain goes missing as well)
Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.
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