On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:44:55 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 5:03:26 PM UTC+3, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 8:45:53 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

Is a Ventus really so difficult if you're competent in a Janus?

Was it really that hard to understand my point?

Yes. The original poster says he's experienced in a Janus, also a flapped ship from SH, and quite probably older and less refined than a Ventus.

I've got 60 or 70 hours in an original (18m, flying tail, belly hook only) Janus and I'm very comfortable in it and with the flaps, to the point that I feel the lack of both low and high speed performance when I fly the 18m DG1000. I've never flown a Ventus or any other flapped single seater.

I'm finally, after 30 years flying gliders, in a position where I'm considering buying my own ship. I'm thinking about a Nimbus 2 or maybe Mini Nimbus, rather than Ventus, but I imagine the same considerations apply.

I've seen people flying ASW20s who try to ignore the flaps, and in particular seem afraid to use landing flaps and end up touching down 75% of the way down the runway and just generally ****ing things up. Perhaps some people would do the same in a Ventus. But not if they're competent in a flapped 2-seater, surely.

My cautions w.r.t. Ventus B aren't based on the fact that it has flaps. They are based on the fact that it is a "fast, unstable, edgy sailplane". It's a lot more work to fly (well) than any of its contemporaries, as even George Moffat has admitted!

Guys I know who have owned both tell me that the Ventus C is far and away more suitable for low time pilots than the Ventus A/B. More dihedral, better aileron control were the big things iirc. I was told it was a far more pleasant sailplane to fly. ASW-20 is also a better choice as far as flying qualities are concerned (just don't forget to hook up the elevator).

Still... I'll dig in on my original point: a 200 hour pilot will be comfortable and XC ready in a Discus more or less instantly. That's worth something. And that's why Disci command higher prices in the US market.

best,
Evan