Darryl,

Thank you for your extensive explanation. It basically confirms what I have understood so far about the system. Funny as it may sound, and contrary to the points you bring up, I seem to be even more convinced now that the relatively cheaper UAT system is the way to go.

1. I do have a Stratux with AHRS (on a second display, the first being XCSoar)and I'm subscribed to the iFlyGPS which has great screens with ADS-B traffic, plus includes photos of outlanding airfields with beautifully marked runways). I haven't tried it out extensively yet, but the little I have flown showed quite good visibility of the towers soon after launching.

2. I don't have PowerFlarm and don't think will go for it (but never say never). My doubt arises from the fact that it is so expensive while being limited to the soaring world. IMO, a better way to go is: forget FLARM, let everybody be equipped with ADS-B and let software apps calculate the collision avoidance with other gliders in soaring (BTW, I don't know what the probing/transmission frequency is for both systems). You state "so many gliders have PowerFLARM" - do we actually know how many? Percentagewise? So many problems/discussions on r.a.s. about Flarm upgrades, lack of range, antennas placing, poor customer service, interference issues etc. are not very encouraging, to be honest.

3. Why do so many sources say: You fly above 18,000 ft? Go for 1090. You fly below? Go for 978 ? See in that respect e.g.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/av...on-is-for-you/

but disregard the specific equipment suggested.

4. For me, the key term is: ALL PARTICIPANTS. Broadcast your information, receive as much information as you can (both with the help of the ground service centers/towers), use/tinker with what you get, adjusted to what you need for safety and competition by proper software onboard. Common, massive use of ADS-B will drive prices down.

5. I fully agree with your advice to upgrade to Mode S, which would open new options. The depth of the pocket will have the final say.


On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 2:32:12 PM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 3:59:36 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
On 09/28/2017 12:50 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 11:20:23 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
How does this offer fit into our discussion? For experimental gliders, and from the price point of view?

http://grtavionics.com/home/ads-b-so...ionix-echouat/

It does not fit anywhere. As discussed on r.a.s. many times in the past.

It is a UAT Out device. Invisible to PowerFLARM, invisible to TCAS.

And most importantly, It's not a transponder.... which the bulk of this conversation should be focused on.


Seems a little harsh. It clearly states it's for use in conjunction
with a Mode C transponder. That will work fine with TCAS, and will give
PCAS type warnings on PF. If Tom already has Mode C, then it would be a
low cost option for making him more visible, and adding dual-band ADS-B
in at the same time.

-Dave

That's exactly my case. I have the Microair T2000SFL and am willing to move toward ADS-B, without spending more than necessary, with the expected benefit of seeing and being seen electronically. At moments it sounds in the discussion here like one-sided visibility solves the problem: "you have the transponder - you are safe because they will see and fly around you". I would like to be seen by all practical means, and see possibly all traffic, so that I can react on my part, too.

Tom

Sorry, yes the product info clearly states for use with a Mode C, but I did not want to assume that use was implied in your question. Your question just said experiential glider, and I want to be very clear what it will or will not do.

When it comes to airlines and fast jets visibility to them, and ATC, should always be the first goal, visibility of them is also useful of course, and in other situations visibility of other traffic become more important (e.g. you can respond more effectively to avoid slower the traffic, that traffic is less likely to have TCAS, or any traffic display system etc.)

You already have a transponder, which is great. Next question is do you have a PowerFLARM? I am guessing not, but I'll touch in that below.

First, please don't adopt UAT Out in the glider community, it is a poor choice given so many gliders have PowerFLARM and will not see your UAT position data, they will see your transponder via PCAS as long as it is being interrogated, but of course that's much less precise that FLARM or ADS-B. If you do have PowerFLARM already, OK that traffic will see you by FLARM. But 1090ES Out is still a better choice, including because it provides longer range visbility of you to all the PowerFLARM users.

Because of compatibility with PowerFLARM if you have a Mode C transponder in a glider and want to go to ADS-B Out then the much better path is to upgrade your transponder to Mode S and a suitable GPS source. Please sell or give your current Mode C transponders to another pilot or club to use.

When considering the cost of things, remember older Mode C transponder will eventually die and need to be replaced, and so why not just replace it now with a Mode S?

And that device asked about does have a dual-link UAT and 1090ES receiver which is great, but there is no way to get that data to display on common soaring flight computers, PDAs etc. You could add a dedicated display for that.

If you do want to add PowerFLARM in future that is likely to be a mess with no way to dedupe traffic from your UAT and ADS-B In system. Again, discussed a lot on r.a.s. and more info can be found by searching, I hope that problem gets solved over time.

If you do want a complete separate dual-link ADS-B In system then products like the Status S2, Statux, and uAvionix Scout, and more are options. (I don't have any personal reports of Scout use). A dual-link ADS-B In system will receive all line of sight 1090ES and UAT Out traffic. It will not receive TIS-B ground service (ADS-B data based on SSR radar) without a compliant ADS-B out system to make your aircraft an ADS-B client. (the UAT system you ask about would do that, but again your ADS-B Out won't ever be seen by PowerFLARM).

GRT avionics and uAvionix targets experimental aircraft, and your question was clearly about experimental. And no surprise that the UAT device is non-TSO. But I do get frustrated with both vendors here not providing really clear specs on their website of what the RTCA and TSO standards the product actually meet. The leading bold "meets 2020 claim" is only true for experimental aircraft, that should be even clearer.