ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Night bombers interception in Western Europe in 1944
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/17/2004 11:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Night bombers interception in Western Europe in 1944
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/16/2004 5:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Night bombers interception in Western Europe in 1944


We offered to give the Brits B-17's each with a big fat belly
turret.They
wouldn't take them. Big mistake.

The RAF operated at least one squadron of B-17's and a number of B-24's
Bomber command were NOT impressed by the type and operated them
mainly as EW aircraft jamming German communications

Keith


They were getting the **** shot out of them every night as they flew
planes
with no belly turrets. And hey used the planes with belly turrrets,
B-17's and
B-24's for electronic jammimg? Brilliant. Just brilliant.


It was since they Germans needed those electronic aids to
find them. Bottom line Art is that most hight bombers
never saw what killed them and no radar guided turrets
were then available.

The option then was fit a belly turret of doubtful utility
and to do so you have to remove the H2S Radar dome
you need to find the target.

Keith

How about take off a few pounds of bombs and do both?

Many of the crews were "taking off a few pounds of bombs" to improve
performance, albeit unofficially over the North Sea or as soon as they crossed
into German airspace. A B-17 or B-24 ball turret weighed about 1,500 pounds
loaded - now you want to add the weight and drag of a radome and radar to that,
and unlike the case with US pathfinders, you're doing so on every a/c instead
of just the lead. That's a lot more than "a few pounds" of bombs, and you've
made every a/c far more vulnerable to fighters and flak, because you're slower
and can't fly as high.

As an example of just how major the drag was, in 1944 and 1945 the 8th AF
allowed various units to experiment with removing guns and turrets to see what
effect it had on performance. Most of the experiments involved only a single
position, but one group removed the chin, top and ball turrets (this was 1945,
when fighter opposition was minimal), and found that it improved the cruise IAS
by about 25 mph, as well as increasing the altitude, climb rate, and ease of
formation flying. That kind of speed increase by the night heavies (compared
to a normal cruise of 155-165IAS several thousand feet lower) would have made
interception by the radar-equipped Me-110s that made up the bulk of the
NachtJagd far more difficult if not impossible, and was worth far more for
safety than the gun turrets were. Which is why US jet nuke bombers were only
given tail guns. Daytime is another matter, at least when there's serious
fighter opposition, but we're talking about night.

Guy