"Venik" wrote in message
...

snip

You're explaining about the - supposed - impact of the MiG-25 and MiG-31
(the last of which was actually developed to counter B-1s and their
AGM-86
ALCMs) on SR-71.

I am talking about the role of the MiG-25/31 in the decision to withdraw
the SR-71 from service. And you are deliberately trying to change the
topic.

You can complain I'm "changing the topic" as much as you like. The point is
only that you're avoiding answers to all questions asked in your direction
here, and can therefore continue explaining me whatever you want until the
hell freezes.

Namely, you still have not mentioned all these books and documents in which
the US thinking and plans were changed because of MiG-31s. No trace of any
kind of proof is coming from you (no surprise: you still haven't provided
any proof for 200+ NATO planes shot down over Serbia, in 1999, either - even
if you're announcing this since five years ). I'm telling you right away -
like so many others here - that the SR-71 was _not_ retired because of
MiG-25/31 threat, and you have not a trace of evidence to deny this.

So, either you finally mention all these books and documents so we can take
a look and you can prove us wrong, or admit you have no evidence at all for
your statements.

If there is no "verifiable" MiG-25-kill scored by IRIAF F-14s against
IrAF
and Soviet MiG-25s during that war, then, please be so kind to explain:
- why are there pictures of MiG-25-wreckage (like on p.64 of "Iranian
F-14
Units in Combat", just for example)?

Iraq lost several MiG-25s in accidents during the conflict. As I already
mentioned, one was lost to an Iranian SAM. One was lost due to
uncontained engine failure. Another one was lost on landing during a
test flight .

You're avoiding to answer my question, so here it is again: - why are there
pictures of wreckage of IrAF and Soviet MiG-25s shot down over Iran?

Besides, if your data is so "well documented", then explain me when was that
one lost to an Iranian SAM and where? How about date and place? Who was the
pilot? From which unit was he? Can you provide a picture of the plane or
wreckage? Where and when was one lost "due to uncontained engine failure"?
Who was the pilot of that plane? Can you provide a picture of that plane or
its wreckage?Where and when was "another one lost on landing during a test
flight"?

BTW, do you at least have a clue which IrAF units used to operate MiG-25s?
Detachments from which V-VS units were sent to Iraq to test their Foxbats in
combat?

Well, the IRIAF I-HAWKs rather got something like four, but that's
another
story.

I know, according to your book, Iraq lost about three times the number
of MiG-25 it had.

Excellent: how about you citing from any of my books where do I state
anything similar?

You said you have read the book, so at least this should not be a
problem....just cite exactly what can be found in the book "Iran-Iraq War in
the Air, 1980-1988" about the number of MiG-25s lost by Iraqis?

What I'd like to know here is the following: as you're so sure that only
one
IrAF Foxbat was shot down by Iranians, then explain us here how it comes
that according to a document I've got released from the Central MoD
Archive
in Moscow, Iraq has got over 60 MiG-25s from USSR between 1980 and 1989.
According to the same document, and also US intel documents released
according to FOIA procedures, however, there were barely 30 of them left
by
1991.

It's a well-documented fact that Iraq acquired only 12 MiG-25PDs....

Where is it "well documented"? What kind of evidence can you provide to
support this statement?

...and
eight MiG-25RB recce bombers. The refurbished MiG-25 that crashed in
Dec. 1987 during a test flight was replaced by the Soviets.

Where did it crash and what is the source for this? Why do the official
Soviet documents state that over 60 MiG-25s were delivered to Iraq, but
there were only 30 left in 1991?

And, of
course, three Iraqi MiG-25s were lost during the PGW - two P-types were
downed by a pair of F-15Cs on the 19th and one more - by a pair of F-16s
on the 25th.

Which IrAF MiG-25s were shot down by F-16s in 1991? Which F-16-pilots scored
these kills and with which weapons?

My only suggestion is that you should look for better
"secret" documents and stop thinking stuff up.

No problem at all: I'll stop "thinking stuff up" and look for better
documents as soon as you finally start answering my questions. Meanwhile
you've ignored quite a lot of these, so here they are again:

- I asked why don't you explain about the impact of (extremely negative)
experiences from the testing of Soviet equipment in Iran-Iraq War, which was
_indeed_ highly influential for (the end of) development of MiG-25?

- I asked, could you now explain us how many SR-71s were shot down in
something like 4.000 SAM-firings against them?

- If there is no "verifiable" MiG-25-kill scored by IRIAF F-14s against IrAF
and Soviet MiG-25s during that war, then, please be so kind to explain:
- why are there pictures of MiG-25-wreckage (like on p.64 of "Iranian F-14
Units in Combat", just for example)?
- why are there ex-IrAF MiG-25 pilots who confirm a loss of at least two
dozens of Iraqi and Soviet Foxbats to Iranian F-14s?
- why do the US intel documents one can get via FOIA procedures confirming
Iranian and Iraqi documents, pilot- and eyewitness-accounts?

I told you I have no problem with your explaining my books for "lots of
baloney", nor stating I'm "thinking stuff up". But, you still have not
answered what is the "evidence" for all these "successful" interceptions of
SR-71s by Soviet fighters you're talking about (see your previous posts in
this thread)? Can you provide any gun-camera pictures or radar bands, or
point at any kind of a source that could?

- Why do the US and Soviet documents agree with each other that over 60
MiG-25s were delivered to Iraq between 1980 and 1989, but barely 30 remained
operational by 1991?

- Can you name a single book that would explain the impact of MiG-31 on the
US planning?

- Would you be so kind to tell us why were all the orders for IFR-equipped
MiG-25s for Libya, Syria and Iraq cancelled in late 1987/1988?

Finally, are you able to offer a reasonable answer to even a single one of
these questions, or do you prefer to show us how much you like to "think
stuffs up" by ignoring them?

--


Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

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Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S7875

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...hp/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************