my understanding is that all the flight time above an undercast is logable
as IFR, because there is no natural horizon. You must use the Gyros to stay
level. An undercast isn't always level!

Harvey

"Hilton" wrote in message
ink.net...
John,

The important point to note is that we should not try 'mix' FARs. If you
want to know about logging, go look in the logging FAR. All others such
as
91.155, 91.13, etc are completely irrelavent.

The FAR says: "A person may log instrument time only for that flight time
when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments
under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."

For example, let's say that a Private non-IR pilot is flying over an
undercast. His/her engine fails completely and he/she glides through the
clouds to a safe landing. The pilot should log that actual time because
the
'logging' FAR says the pilot can. IFR, VFR, reckless, cloud distances etc
etc etc has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

Hilton


John R Weiss wrote:
"Hilton" wrote...
Even if you are on a VFR flight plan and are not instrument rated?

The FARs do not specify 'must be on an IFR flight plan', nor do they
specify
that you need to be instrument rated to log actual.

Indeed, you can legally fly under VFR (even without any flight plan at
all) as
long as the weather is as prescribed in 91.155. There is no mention of
a
visible horizon...

OTOH, you may find yourself at odds with 91.13(a) or 91.113(b) if you
have
not
sufficiently prepared for the flight or don't have enough experience to
safely
fly in the conditions...