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Old March 13th 17, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 641
Default All US Records are Now Motor Glider Records

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 1:43:45 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 7:09:12 PM UTC+3, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:21:19 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 5:55:17 PM UTC+3, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 10:46:52 AM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Sort of hard to self launch if the motor is disabled.

Records should be about the soaring performance not the launch method. Records should showcase the greatest possible achievement period, not the greatest possible achievement from an airport with a towplane.

Does it make sense for a Silent or a Russia AC-5M to be competing in the same record category as an EB-29?

World Records must first be certified as National Records. Under the old system it was very possible to fly a world record performance in a motorglider and not be able to claim it, thanks to our rules not aligning with the FAI's.

You guys are missing the point.

Us pure glider guys don't give a darned what records are kept for motor gliders. Knock yourselves out, have as many MG classes as you want. It's a ***different game***. If you can't see that, please just take my word for it (I am not alone). We want the sailplane records to remain sailplane records, that is all.

I understand that you're asserting it's a different game, and you feel in your bones that it's a different game.

My question is: do the existing records show that it is a different game -- and one tipped in favour of motor gliders?

OLC. Someone on here made the point just a couple of weeks ago that a motor glider enabled an extra risk free 100km a day (whether or not they ran the motor) and that "everyone knows this". I haven't tried to make a case that this is true based on real data, nor do I plan to. I'm going on my gut and how I'd change my own tactics given the self retrieve option.

There's no where near enough data in US records to make a meaningful claim.

Anecdotally, there's the spectacular example of Brian Milner, who aero towed to a remote start, promptly fell off the ridge, ran his motor, got back on the ridge a few miles South where the ridge/wind angle was better, and then flew 2000 OLC km, so far the longest OLC flight in the Eastern US (and a virtuoso performance worthy of the highest respect I can muster). A pure sailplane would have been in the valley around 7am.

I know from my own flying that I leave a fair bit of distance on the table, even on record days. I never have a dedicated crew. I do have club mates that are willing to retrieve me in the event I am forced down (I make sure this is a rare circumstance). There are one or two that would probably be happy to come fetch me after an intentional outlanding, but they never seem to be around on the record days!

I think OLC is more about average days than record days, and for sure a motor helps then.

When I look at the dozens of times Terry Delore got up before dawn, prepared everything, and took a hella expensive tow from Wigram to the Southern Alps .. until he finally bagged that world record official first 2000 km flight [1]. Just wow. What dedication. What expense. How much easier it would have been if he could have motored into the wave himself...

[1] Ray Lynskey of course made a non-record 2000 km flight a couple of years earlier.

I should probably clarify that when I am talking about attacking records without a crew, I am talking about back water state records in VT and NH. The bar isn't that high (but still good fun). US National records are of a different magnitude and not only suggest a crew, but (for most of us) a lengthy drive to a suitable location for the attempt. I haven't yet fired up for that mission... but I have at least thought about how I might go after a couple of those records.

Having a self launcher to poke around for wave seems like it would be a) a great deal of fun and b) a huge advantage over non-motorized guys.

Evan Ludeman / Dinosaur Rider