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Old July 20th 17, 02:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Flap performance

On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 2:59:05 AM UTC-4, Just Me wrote:
I'm considering purchasing a Ventus B. I'm aware of the "stability" issues, although some the extent of the stability issue seems to vary from plane to plane and pilot to pilot. I've talked to some people who say its not a big deal, and others who say its problematic. It's hard for me to know what to expect.

However, I was discussing flaps with a flight instructor and a question came up: How does a Ventus in neutral flaps compare to a Discus (I'm aware of the handling difference)? If you are in competition, flying a flapped ships, against other flapped ships, you better be an expert with the flaps. But if you are doing cross country work, are flaps essentially just an asset that is optionally available to allow you to slow down in a thermal or speed up in cruise.

He asserted that the Discus wing was considerably more advanced than the Ventus wing, and that you had to effectively use the flaps or you were actually better off (performance wise) with the Discus -- ie if you aren't flying a lot, you should stay away from flaps.

Can anyone compare the performance of a Discus to a Ventus, or better yet, does anyone have polars for a Discus and a Ventus (as a function of flap setting)?

FWIW, I have about 200 hours, and have flown flapped ships, including a 301 Libelle and a Janus -- as well as a wide variety of other non-flapped ships.


Before I flew my Ventus I had some hours on three two seat gliders (Grob 103, ASK 21 and a Dual Discus. The discuss was the best experience because of similar cockpit layout. My first flight was in flap setting 0 and I used plus 2 flap for the landing. After that I was fine with the flaps and I do use flap setting 2 for thermalling a lot. It probably will take you 20-40hrs to dial in. My biggest issue was the very effective air brake flap system that will make this 40 plus glider into a 5/1 is seconds! Because its on the trailing edge the nose dramatically points down when you use L flap setting and full brake. The other issue is just learning how to optimize the glider in the climb and I would think there is a learning period for all gliders on that and maybe the Ventus is a little more touchy. After 40 hours I was pretty comfortable and now I am enjoying the performance at speed and the ability to land on a short field. Most of the trash on the Ventus comes from a couple RAS/soaring blog posts and If I remember correctly the guy was making the case for a discus over the Ventus.

If money is not the object, flaps are not a need and you have a nice conditioned discus to consider go with it. I wanted flaps and the best performance for my dollar and at that time and I bought my Ventus. One other thing.... I have winglets and my glider tracks pretty well as to that drama queen statement of letting go of the stick into a spiral dive I have not found any evidence of that. You do need to fly the glider and can't let go and have a seven course meal. That said I have fiddled with my flight computer, drink water, and taken photos with my iphone without any issues.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...-

Dennis

DC