Before I read that post I was confused about getting out of flat spins using
power - but now I'm envious, and confused about getting out of flat spins
using power!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, okay, I rise to the challenge. I have a little over 700 hours in
the 104A (including some time in the Dash 19 version) and just over
2000 in the F4D/E/E-LES. I was fortunate in that the IP who checked me
out in the F4 respected my 3000 hours fighter time and together we
explored the envelope. I found the F4 to be an honest airplane (as was
the 104) and once you learned what it was trying to tell you you could
fly it to its real envelope, not the Dash One or NATOPS figures, but
what it was really capable of. The one aerodynamic thing I didn't like
was the G-dig decelerating through M 1.0 while loaded up - it came on
really sudden and if you happened to be looking outside (as is usual
while chasing someone) you were looking at a probable over-G. As for
fighting the birds, once in knife-range the old engined 104 vs F4 it
was the pilots - with the Dash 19 it could run the F4 out of fuel,
keeping the speed up and the G on, working the vertical a lot better,
and then assassinate it. With a missile fight - if the Sparrows worked
the 104 was going to be in trouble. Muscles per G? I guess I'm a bad
example because at 6-2 and 225 I never had any problem getting the
stick wa-a-a-y back. Landing - on a wet slippery runway at DaNang my
routine was on-speed plus a slow chevron, aim for the numbers at the
end of the runway and about eight feet up (eyeball guess) have the back
seater pull the throttles back while I popped the chute. PS I did not
like the loss of speed in the LES version for a dubious gain in turn
rate for a measly 180 degrees. I'd been through that in the F102 - turn
like hell and then dive for airspeed after having lost 250 knots in 180
degrees. Never got out of control when I was flying it but had a stud
try to pick up a wing with aileron down around first nose-rise in an
approach to a stall. This guy had been previously current in F4s and
had tons of Hun time so I was complacent. (Bad Walter! Bad boy! No
donut!) Anyway my lightning reactions responded and my white knuckles
now firmly gripping the rear stick hit the radar scope and the bird
unloaded to zero alpha in a microsecond and we were back flying again.
(Said reactions honed by 104's propensity to pitch up when working it
slow and hard) Used to spiral up in the F4 turning toward the sun just
out of a being-tracked position and at the appropriate time and 200
KIAs or slower go zero alpha, full rudder, inboard engine idle and
outboard full AB and sort of do a lateral pivot on a dime and blast
past the other guy going straight down accelerating in both ABs while
he was still going up and getting even slower. This also worked in the
Dash 19 104 with the advantage of much faster accel due to 1+:1 T/W.
Damn. I miss that kind of flying! Walt BJ