On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:04:27 AM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 07:24:48 UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-4, mic pilot wrote:
It seems like this incident took place near teddy intersection at approx. 7000 msl? That’s just a really bad place flying if you’re not talking to ATC, with or without a transponder. Teddy is major point on the arrival and anyone that’s flown into ORD has heard of it..
The flight aware track is deceiving because the jet does a few turns over Janesville at 10000msl but that’s not where the conflict took place. It was SE of JVL at 7000msl when the jet had to climb to miss an aircraft.

As glider pilots we really need to know where the jet traffic is and not go there unless you're in contact with ATC. Look up all the major airports you fly near on Airnav.com, read about the runways, and especially the STAR arrivals, also frequencies, and phone numbers are helpful. You can download free copies of the STARS. Knowing what runways they are using based on winds the day of your flight can help.
Then on your flights, if the lift takes you near a busy intersection at the altitude used, call ATC. If you’re well below the traffic, maybe just listen? However, know that if you have a transponder and don’t call, you are causing a lot of chatter on a busy frequency. They will all be trying to figure out what you’re doing.

Hi Mic,

Wellllllll... since a lot of this is all new to me it's a cinch that it's new to many, if not most glider pilots. Never heard of a STAR until this discussion. Didn't know you could get free copies :-).

This would be a good opportunity for some knowledgeable glider + airline pilot or glider pilot + ATC guy to do an article or two. Let me be first to provide such encouragement.

But I really have to wonder about the wisdom of bringing big iron down below 8000 that far out of class B in VFR conditions. Actually, I don't "wonder" at all, I think it's unconscionably stupid. Feel free to give me a reason to change my mind.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan, here in Northern and Central Utah we have built a great relationship with the folks at Salt Lake Center, commercial, and Clover Center, military, over the last 3-4 years. We are fortunate to have a number of commercial pilots within the ranks of the club and one retired ATC pilot.

I flew out of the Minden NV and Truckee CA airports a couple of summers ago and was impressed with the documented procedures they have established with the Northern CA ATC for traffic going into and out of Reno NV. We used their documents, with permission, as templates and sat down with the folks at Salt Lake Air Traffic Control.

On the club web site http://utahsoaring.org/ we have provided three documents for all pilots (you can follow the links from the main page of the web site or use the links below)

Talking to Air Traffic Control - http://utahsoaring.org/Documents/SLC...%20Control.pdf this document reviews the "lingo" that best to use when speaking with ATC

Flow Maps:

SLC North http://utahsoaring.org/Documents/SLC...0N%20Plate.pdf
SLC South http://utahsoaring.org/Documents/SLC...0S%20Plate.pdf

These maps are designed to be printed and kept in glider cockpits for quick reference. They were developed by the folks at SLC ATC


Recommended Communication Procedures For Flying Gliders - http://utahsoaring.org/Documents/SLC...%20Rev%201.pdf

This document is lengthy but reviews all the airports currently used in Northern and Central UT by the club for soaring operations, procedures, communications and a link to SkyVector for all the STAR (arrival) and RD (departure) routes.

I would encourage you and your club to contact and meet with the appropriate ATC personal and discuss soaring activities, locations and procedures. I am sure you will be welcomed.

If you would like some contact information for the personal in SLC to provide to your local ATC folks, contact me directly and I will be happy to share.

Ron Gleason


PS - I will encourage the pilot that is retired ATC to provide an article to soaring magazine

Hi Ron,

Great stuff, thank you for sharing!

We don't have this issue at my home club, but I travel... I'm quite interested in learning this stuff and raising awareness.

best,
Evan