View Single Post
  #98  
Old October 9th 17, 03:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Glider near miss with Airliner (emergency climb) near Chicago yesterday?

"250 kias limit is a hard limit"
I need to clarify my previous post. I should have stated, "250 kias limit is a hard limit for civilian aircraft". One of the things Wes made me aware of when getting an orientation at Seminole, is that there is a military IR route just west of the airport over the green swamp. As most pilots are aware, the military can exceed the 250 kias limit on their training routes even below 10,000. Even below 1,500 ft in some cases. The military speed limit below 10,000 ft is 420 kias and their "minimum" speed is usually 300 knots. Many of the routes are for IFR military training and they are under the control of ATC and possibly not looking out the windows. Flying near these routes without a transponder would not seem prudent. ATC is keeping other IFR traffic out of the area. If a VFR pilot ventures into one of these routes, then the VFR pilot should probably assume they have full responsibility for separation.

I have not seen it discussed previously, or I may have missed it. I have had reservations about flying near airways or crossing airways in the glider.. As most gliders are certified in the experimental category, the FAR rule about not flying over densely populated areas and "in a congested airway" applies. Since I have Mode S transponders in my gliders, I am aware that ATC can see exactly where I am and who I am. I have never seen a definition of "congested". I have monitored the traffic on airways near where I primarily fly, both via ADSB-IN in my other aircraft and using Flightaware. I think I could justify that the airways I cross are not "congested", but the term is obviously subject to some interpretation. In the case of the United246 incident, there are many airways in the area. Most of the airways have a minimum altitude for IFR traffic less than 3000 ft. Likewise, since STARS into ORD use some of the airways, then those might be considered congested, or at least frequently used airways. If it is not permissible to fly in a congested airway, then it seems an argument could be made that we must fly under it?