that does not say I am unconfortable flying in the clouds. It only means I was
trying to avoid the ones at the freezing levels. thats all it means. nothing
more and nothing less.
your trying to make something out of nothing with out actually being there.


Mike Rapoport wrote:

Did you write the following?

"I chose VFR the first part of the flight so I could have the latitude to
dodge clouds to prevent icing."

"so here I am now down from my safe altitude above the clouds"

"then here I am in these nasty clouds, outside temp about -2"

"then he does not want me to do the ILS, he tells me to decend to 2700 ft
and to be prepared for the visual. man what a crappy flight"

Mike
MU-2

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
when did I complain about flying in the clouds?

who complained about not getting the ILS in VMC

who said I was not comfortable with flying in the clouds?

I think you misread some things.


Mike Rapoport wrote:

Maybe prepared is not the right word but you make a point of saying that
you:flew most of the trip VFR to aviod ice and yet you filed IFR into
class
B airspace and complained about flying in clouds. You accepted the
descent
to 7000 (amongst the clouds) while VFR. So basically you seem to be
complaining about not getting your clearance right away, having to fly
IFR
in clouds and not getting the ILS in VMC. You also complain that he
made
you descend for traffic, separating traffic is the controllers primary
job.

If you are not comfortable flying in icing clouds then don't file IFR in
class B airspace when the temp is below freezing. Most of your issues
where
of your own making and you should accept responsibilty for them instead
of
blaming someone else. It is odd that the controller said that he was
busy
on a quiet freq.

Mike
MU-2

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
and how was I not prepared ?


Mike Rapoport wrote:

If you are not prepared to fly in "nasty clouds" then you have no
business
filing, requesting or flying IFR.

Mike
MU-2

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Just a quick note to any of you guys flying IFR into the phoenix
area.
I just got back from a trip to phoenix from vegas, I had filed a
composit flgiht plan, VFR untill I was by phoenix then I would
request
my IFR if it was needed since FSS reported overcast at 2700 and
few at
600.

freezing level was 7000-8000, MEA was 9000 in some parts and
10,000
during other parts of route. I chose VFR the first part of the
flight
so
I could have the latitude to dodge clouds to prevent icing.

all went fine, I got handed off to phoenix approach, I was at
12,000
ft
on top of the layer, no way into phoenix except through that mess
either. So I asked phoenix for my IFR and he said I was cleared
into
class B and to decend to 7000 and he would look for my clearence.
I
start my decent, between some clouds and he comes back and says to
turn
toward carefree if I want to pick up my IFR because he was to
busy.
no
one was talking except me.
then he told me to stay clear of class B. so here I am now down
from
my
safe altitude above the clouds, a nitwit controller, I zig zag
between
some clouds and call him again, he says he cant see me on radar
and to
turn towards carefree, so I figured I would follow the valley
under
some
clouds, then my wife says dont turn that way, that mountain is
covered
by clouds, so I get back on the radio and tell the controller he
got
me
down here, I amnow stuck and I needed my clearence or I would be
in
trouble. He finally said, ok, and gave it to me. man that guy
****ed
me
off. there was another guy trying to do the same thing as me in a
cessna, right after I got my clearence, and the controller told
him to
stay at 2500 ft and turn towards carefree because he was
"saturated"
with IFR departures. Yet no one else was talking. then here I am
in
these nasty clouds, outside temp about -2, he gives me to decend
to
6000, then right after that screams at me traffic alert decend to
5000
...so I am in total IMC diving down to 5000 ft.. then he does not
want
me to do the ILS, he tells me to decend to 2700 ft and to be
prepared
for the visual. man what a crappy flight - and I didnt even tell
you
about the 1500 fpm downdraft or when my engine started losing
power.

that controller still has me ****ed off and its 2 days later.