Juvat wrote:

Guy Alcala posted:

P.S. Do the articles you found describe the F-104 tactics used against the
F-86Hs? I've got that.

I don't...I have a couple "Double Attack" articles from FWR (1971 I
think)...with editor's note at the end of each reminding readers that
Fluid Four is how to get the job done.

Snip info on pubs. Thanks

Well, to give you the short version, if the (1 v. 1) Zip started on the
defensive (420 kts)at low altitude, they'd go negative-G into ground clutter
until reaching about 1.1M, making rapid banking reversals to prevent gun/missile
shots (rare, as the F-86 pilots found it almost imposssible to reverse and get
into a gun/missile envelope owing to their low speed after the defensive break
and the negative closure on the accelerating 104s). Once out of AIM-9B/Atoll
range, they'd begin a climbing turn at about M1.0 and 2g; typically, by the time
they'd reached 180 deg. of turn the F-86s would have lost sight, and the F-104s
would go offensive. When offensive, they'd start their pass at a minimum of
500-600Kts, which would allow them to pull up to 5g sustained (more got into
buffet) and track the 86s for a gun shot, allowing speed to bleed down to no
lower than 400 knots (Note that they'd only turn with the F-86s when the latter
were fast, .7M; otherwise, they just made slashing attacks) before quarter
rolling away, and proceed as for the defensive separation above. Same basic
procedures for 2 v. 2 and 4 v. 4, except that double attack was used and the
offensive passes were usually started at 1.1M and speed wasn't allowed to go
below 500 kts.

For the high altitude combats (35kft. start), the same basic technique was used,
except that the initial dive and separation was steeper (ca. 40 deg.) until
reaching M1.4 or so @ 10kft, then proceed as before. At both high and low
altitude, once the 104s got their energy up after the initial defensive start
they were never defensive again. As far as Tom knew, there was only a single,
iffy kill called on the 104s by the 86s. One pilot started his climbing spiral
a bit early, and the 86 pilot was able to get a tone at about 2,000 ft. range
with negative closure. The range officer agreed that the shot was edge of the
envelope, but the Zipper pilot admitted that he'd made a mistake and would have
had to break if a missile had been fired.

Guy