Juvat wrote:

Jeez...you're reading waaaay too much into Scott's posts IMO. The
original question you will recall had to do with ANG F-102 units
called up. He posited none due to the mission. He was correct on that
score. Yes? No?

Well, I think you're word-smithing a bit here. If we are searching for
full unit deployments of F-102, specifically from ANG units, for SEA,
then I'm not sure that there were any. But, I do know that there were
Deuces in SEA in '66 when I was there, and there were Deuces in SEA in
'72-'73 when I was there. The convolutions of ADC (Air-then-Aerospace
Defense Command) and it's relationships between ANG and USAF are
sometimes difficult to decipher.

or to those "champagne unit" (your
description) members who pulled their voluntary rotations in Vietnam?
Methinks not...

Okay, but that's an entirely different issue from the "entitled"
gentlemen that used their position to get an officer slot in the TX
ANG...in an airplane that had next to ZERO chance of getting activated
and sent into harm's way. So I'd be willing to bet Scott would have no
problem acknowledging the excellent service of the SEA volunteers.

Well, again. Here the question revolves around the somewhat belabored
point of the two political parties in America. The fact is, that the
President probably could have avoide military service entirely. We
have a lot of documentation that his predecessor was successful and
arguably when he was avoiding, a lot less "privileged" than Bush.

Given the choice between being a tactical aviator and an infantryman,
he made the same choice I did (although my choice was made a few years
earlier.) Now, we had the comparisons with Bush's opponent, who,
despite being a college graduate and being able to arguably make a
greater contribution to his nation as an officer, chose to be an
enlisted Army admin clerk.

Now, as you well understand, Bush went through a full year of UPT,
then the various required USAF survival schools, then full operational
qualification and a couple of years of ANG service flying a Century
Series jet. That seems to me (based on what I know of
single-engine/single-seat aviation) a somewhat hazardous occupation.

This was in a period in which the aircraft which he was qualified in
was continously deployed to SEA. I'd say there was a little bit more
than "ZERO chance" of winding up in harm's way. Again, arguably a bit
more chance than being a body-guarded PIO clerk who spent 151 days of
a year tour in SEA.



Again...simply from a comprehension stand point the question was ANG
F-102 sqdns recalled for SEA...NOT, I repeat NOT if any AD squadrons
served. Scott was correct on this score even if he simply guessed.

As to even the
definition of 'first line", have you ever looked at what the breakdown
in the old ADC force was during that period? Take a gander at how many
of those forces you call "second echelon", I presume, were standing
alert on a routine basis.

Well, throughout most of SEA, there were units in combat flying the
F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104, and F-105. There were units flying C-47,
C-119, C-123, AT-37, A-1, B-57, B-66, O-1, O-2, etc. etc. It seems as
though the "second echelon" question isn't a very good one.

OK your AD and ANG service and my AD and ANG service differed greatly.
I agree with Scott's POV on state control in the past (only from
asking the question of career ANG guys). YMMV

Too little, too late (in terms of backpeddling, that is). Go up and
read your first paragraph in *this* post and then come back and tell
me you were not "attacking".

OK...I don't think he was attacking. And I think it is fairly accurate
to postulate that the USAF didn't think the F-102 was essential in
SEA, short legs and an adversary with a token number of IL-28s.

The continual deployment (despite the fairly dismal combat
effectiveness) of the F-102 during SEA seems to disagree with your
last statement here.

No one thought the Beagles were coming, but there was a lot of
apprehension about a singleton MiG-17 or 21 making a penetration over
Laos into the Thai bases or across the DMZ to Danang. An alert
interceptor force was always deployed.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038