MMMMmmmm I'm sure others will have there view of Johns
response. Can't actually see in my post where I said
anything about 'normalizing things to some standard
1000
point day'. All I'm saying is that you cannot really
compare NASCAR racing with gliding. It's like comparing
apples and grapes.

Sure conditions will change, but the conditions can
be better or worse at any point on the task. You can't
compare that to clean air at the front of a car race,
come on. And as all competition pilots will know,
you can win a contest as the last glider that crosses
the start line - its not about being out in-front.
Good competition pilots require more of an analytical
or tactical approach to winning, not balls out speed.
If you don't understand this then perhaps you'd better
take up NASCAR racing.

At 20:06 04 June 2004, John Jones wrote:
At 19:06 04 June 2004, Brian Penfold wrote:
I do not fly contests. But I agree the proper measures
should be in place if you are going to hold a race.
The proper measure is not distance, but speed. Seems
clear the question is who can fly the fastest, not
who can fly the farthest.

GPS provides this solution for the pilot. With a simply
program written for a PDA, the current average speed
is easily shown in terms how fast is the pilot flying
AWAY from the last turnpoint.

No need to just count the miles flown. Just figure
out who is flying the fastest around the course.

How do you score this for a week-long contest? You
can not just add the speeds together each day (nor
distance for that matter). Each day should be counted
the same....just like in MotoGP motorcycle racing where
each race is counted the same, whether that race was
in the rain, sun, cold, or whatever. 15 points for
first place, 14 points for second...on down to 1 point
for 15th place. Everyone else gets no points, including
those who do not finish (DNF sailplanes that land out,
I say). End of the week, your best pilot will be the
pilot with the highest point total. The week was what
it was...you cant try to alter or devalue the points
to some nominal expectations of what the conditions
should be....if it rains all week, it rains, deal with
it...do not pretend we can devalue the points as if
the weather were better.

This is a reply for real?

If it is not a wind up then I think the first line
of post says it all really. I'm afraid your solution
shows a complete lack of the dynamics of soaring competitions
and of the sport in general. The current rules, while
not perfect, take into account the multitude of variables
associated with perhaps the most dynamic of all sports.


Motor-racing, has 'standard' conditions for all entrants,
ie same track, same weather, same mechanical constraints,
common start - with only the driver/rider performance
and the funding behind the development of the engine/chassis
to really providing the advantage. There is very little
to compare, apart from transatlantic sailing I guess,
(and that uses on 2D dynamics) with soaring competitions;
the dynamics are infinitely variable, and the current
scoring systems allows for that. Try explaining the
nil points for a land out to the pilots, on a day when
everybody lands out and yet the furthest flown competitor
lands within a few Kms of the finish after a 300km
flight task, and the novice competition pilot lands
25kms after the start line. Who has had the most meritorious
flight/ Who deserves the most points. How do you
score a week when every day everyone lands out?

Also the proper measure cannot be 'just speed' alone
but must be as it is, a delicate balance of the ability
of the pilot to balance his skill against the characteristics
of his own aircraft, with the current and projected
climatic conditions as well as other pilots. The only
way to achieve what you ask is for everyone to fly
the same sailplane, cross the start line at the same
time and to fly exactly the same route.

Ever tried to race a LS8 with a Junior? are they even
in the same league? ( VNE LS8 145Kts - VNE Junior
119Kts) well they can be, and the scoring system takes
account of this. It also allows club aircraft to compete
against privately owned aircraft, at many different
levels.

Try flying in a competition sometime, perhaps you will
understand it - you could then comment on it from
an informed position.



Informed position?? Clearly, you are mis-informed.


Sure, the sky conditions can change despite everyone
going from turnpoint A to turnpoint B because people
get spreadout and late/slow pilots will can have different
conditions.

How does that differ from NASCAR or Indy racers? Those
out front have the clean air and no traffic slowing
them like those drivers back in the pack. Should we
build each car a seperate race track and then somehow
devalue the results if one of the racetracks have different
weather conditions??

And how does choosing or failing to choose a thermal
differ from auto racing? Just because a pilot land-outs
cause he was too busy about going forward instead of
climbing, we have to assume he is to be rewarded somehow???
Ask NASCAR fans if drivers should get championship
points because they run out of gas instead of pitting.
Thermals, like the gas can for the car, is what makes
the plane go. Can't believe you suggest awarding points
to pilots who do not understand this simple idea.

Sure, on really bad days, everyone lands out. Don't
hold a race on a day with bad weather, but mistakes
will happen, so what do we do? Nothing! That's just
racing. For autos, sometimes you have a flat tire,
blown engine, or get involved in a multi-car crash....just
part of racing, you are DNF and you get no points.
Same thing with sailplanes, it is okay to have bad
luck, it is part of racing.

Stop trying to normalize things to some standard 1000
point day. Judge people on the actual performance
they turn in, and penalize severly any unsafe activity.
Just because you spend time and money on your sailplane
does not mean you are entitiled to be competive and
earn points. Want points? Then go to the front consistently
just like the NASCAR boys do.