C J Campbell wrote:

: wrote in message
: ...
:
: So, it is possible for someone to log PIC flight time who has a pilot
: certificate with ratings valid for the aircraft (e.g. PPSEL), but no BFR
: or current
: medical if they were the sole manipulator of the controls? If that is the
: case, then
: this person could go fly with a current pilot rated for the aircraft, and
: they both
: log PIC... one as sole manipulator and one as the legal "acting as PIC".

: In this case, yes, because the acting PIC is a required crew member. The
: same is true of a safety pilot who is acting as PIC.

I've looked through the FARs some and.... *zzzzzzzzz*.... Oh, sorry... I
haven't found where it stipulates what constitutes a "required crew member," except in
the obvious case of an aircraft that requires it. Also, for a safety-pilot for a
rated pilot under the hood, things are rather clear (PIC vs. SIC is mainly a matter of
agreement as to who is acting as PIC). In the non-current case above, however, it's
not clear to me that the current/rated pilot is "required." Of course it makes sense
that he would be required, because the aircraft cannot be legally flown (i.e. *acting*
as PIC) by the noncurrent pilot.

: Bill, a rated pilot but not a flight instructor, takes his friend Jill for a
: ride in his Warrior. Jill holds no certificate and has never even been in a
: plane before, but Bill lets her fly the airplane for awhile. Bill continues
: to act as PIC. It is fairly evident that Jill can neither act as PIC nor log
: the time as PIC. But does Bill log PIC during the time Jill is handling the
: controls? You could argue it both ways: Bill is a required crew member and
: should log the time; or you could say that he is not really required and is
: unable to log the time. I tend to go with the former view because Bill could
: also just set the autopilot and still log the time as PIC even though
: *nobody*, strictly speaking, is handling the controls and Bill and Jill are
: in the back of the airplane having a picnic.

Basically the same as above, except the question of Jill logging the time is
moot, since she is not rated in the category/class/[type]. Don't the regs only allow
manipulation of the controls by a rated person (strictly speaking) unless a CFI is
PIC?

....head...hurting...now....

-Cory


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