On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:35:51 -0800, John Foster wrote:

Standard Libelles (two) between $14,000 and $16,000.

Cheaper that here, then: I got mine for GBP 7,500 in 2006 and last time I
heard a price, they were changing hands for GBP 13,000 - thats due to
Club Class and a decent handicap and because they're nice to fly -
provided you don't have wide shoulders.

Two H301 Libelles are listed at $10,000 and $19,000.

I can't comment because I've never seen one (there are very few in the
UK), but they are flapped, so not a first glider.

IME the main thing that needs getting used to when converting to a
flapped glider is using the flap lever rather than the trim as your
primary speed control. It takes time to be at the point where you're
always in the right flap setting, so quite similar to getting used to
driving a stick shift car when you've learned to drive in a car with
automatic transmission.

Even the old 1-26 seems to be going up in price, with current listings
between $8,500 to $10,000.

Not surprising as no more are being made, they seem to be popular, and
there being enough around to make competing in a one-design class
attractive has to make them more desirable.

One Ka6CR listed for $6,000, and recent Ka8B have listed for
$4,500 to $5,000.

Ka6s have done good things - back when they were fairly new, on a
particularly good day with a northerly, three started from separate
airfields in Southern Germany, joined up in the middle of France and all
landed on the same airfield just short of the Pyrenees on the Spanish
border. Again, I've seen them round and helped to rig them, but never
flown one.

"Marginally appropriate" (maybe not) for first glass ship would be an
ASW 15 (not B model) for $7,000.

A Danish Friend had one and liked it, but said his only had a CG hook
which was offset a long way from the centre line, so it needed a lot of
rudder and still swung quite a bit at the start of an aero tow. Apart
from that, I've heard that:

- the aileron pushrods are supported by sets of three nylon rollers at
120 degrees round the rod. Controls get V stiff if these get gunged up
and are apparently hell to clean

- the wings skins are glass/balsa/glass sandwiches, but so are the wing
skins on on my old Libelle and its not a problem on mine (which is
always kept in its trailer ot pegged out with covers on.

- the spars are box beams with a balsa web on both front and rear sides,
IIRC the webs are painted on the outside but not on the inside, where
they tended to grow mold so in the UK and the EU the annual inspection
requires the spar interiors to be inspected with a bore scope.

He may still have his '15 - I haven't heard from him for quite a while.

Then there is the Standard Cirrus (again, maybe not the best choice as
a first glass ship) for between $12,000 to $20,000 (one is a G81 model
with conventional elevator/stabilizer instead of all-flying tail, for
$19,900).

I've sat in one of the later ones, with conventional elevator, but
haven't flown one. The cockpit is HUGE - almost anybody should fit in
them fairly easily provided they are below the max. pilot weight. Going
to a conventional elevator apparently made them a lot easier to fly, but
probably means that a nice one will get top dollar when sold.

Otherwise you are looking at typically $20,000 to $40,000 for anything
that people would traditionally recommend as a "first glass ship" that
is "appropriate" for a low-time pilot, particularly one trained on the
2-33, as most training is done here in the USA.

I hope some of this is useful info.


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Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org