"EAC" wrote in message
m...
Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
Its one way of dealing with Vietnam and like wars that did not go
well, atleast in the public mind.. Not that there was not oddities and
corruptions cause of WW2.

Much of the crisises of the world today can be directly related to
thigns we did not do during and after WW2. Like where did the Atlantic
Charter go after FDR died? Well, instead of helping give former
imperial/colonial possessions their freedom, we allowed the empires to
keep them and abuse them as before. Vietnam as being one.

"sanjian" wrote in message
news:igXvc.1129$5B2.79@lakeread04...
Hoh Chi Minh actually asked us for help with France before turning
towards
Moscow.

Well, many countries asked toward Moscow AFTER they asked Washington
D.C. and was turned down.

North Vietnam was the main example there, but North Korea and Eastern Europe
went that way because the Soviets occupied them and set up their gov'ts.
(With a notable exception being Yugoslavia, where Tito ran things in an
uneasy "brotherhood" with Russia.) Cuba was also interesting, with Fidel
pulling a bait and switch. Of course, the place is a mess now.

Of course, on the motivations and reasoning for WW2, this doesn't wash.
Anyone can nitpick the outcome, but a lot of Europe, especially in the west,
turned out OK. Taiwan and South Korea became prosperous, free nations. WW2
was fought because the Nazis, Italian Fascists and Japanese were bombing,
killing, and invading people. The US got in after the Japanese bombed the
US, and early in the war the German U-Boats went nuts of the US East Coast
with Operation Drumbeat. There was just cause, if ever there was.

This is actually is quite acceptable, one is allowed to not give help
and let things work it for itself. It's one's right on whether or not
one should give help. Forcing them, inflicting violence on them,
giving lecture to them, boycotting the, and so on so that they will
help isn't acceptable.

You need to extend your outrage to what the Communist nations in the
post-WW2 world, and the Axis ones of WW2, were doing to people. The Russians
killed millions of their own people, plus Ukranians, Poles, Estonians,
Hungarians, etc. etc.

The Chinese Communists murdered at least hundreds of thousands of their own
countrymen.

During WW2, the Japanese were going nuts killing people in China, they
maimed and tortured civilians and enemy POWs alike in the Phillipines. US
citizens, mind you. Plus Singapore, Wake Island, etc.

The Germans murdered millions. The Italians gassed Ethiopians and cooperated
with the Nazis in their war effort, until they were invaded and the Italians
themselves rose up and threw out Mussolini's minions - prompting Hitler to
order Italy occupied and attacked by the German forces.

The Japanese also, as was said, bombed the US and invaded her territory in
the Phillipines, Guam, Wake Island, and the Aleutian Islands. The German
U-Boats sank plenty of civilian US merchant ships off the US coast early in
1942.

It should be noted that interfering with one's country own affair on
the other hand, isn't acceptable.

Well, I do wish you would have been around to politely explain that to
Hitler and Tojo, sir. I also think your telling Stalin not to starve the
Ukranians, take over the Baltic States, screw over Poland, divide the
Koreans against each other, help prompt a proxy war in Korea, and telling
Mao not to invade Tibet, fight artillery duels with Taiwan and kill a lot of
his own people would have been nice too. The US wasn't dealing with a bunch
of civilized people here.

I wonder how history would have played out if
we had honored their request.

The term 'we' implied as if the citizens of the U.S.A. has the same
will as the government of the U.S.A.

It's not in the will of the citizens of the U.S.A.'s to go into a war,
let alone 'liberating' other people countries and fighting other
people's wars.

It saves the expense of having to fight on our own ground to liberate
ourselves if we deal with it before it comes to that. Do you think the
people in US Territory in Hawaii, the Phillipines, Wake and Guam felt safe
when the planes started coming over and the bombs started falling? Do you
think the people on the East Coast felt safe and unthreatened looking out in
1942 at the night horizon, lit up by burning, torpedoed ships? I can tell
you my English teacher in grade school was a kid then, and she sure
remembered being horrified by it, and seeing the oil and tar washing up,
with all the debris afterwards. Do you believe the US forces and Western
Eurpoeans in Europe felt safe seeing how the Russians established their grip
in Eastern Europe before, during, and after WW2? Do you think Taiwanese feel
nice and safe when the Chinese fire "practice" missiles near their island?
Do you believe Americans felt really safe when they saw planes hijacked and
rammed into buildings a couple years ago? For one who professes to have such
knowledge, you seem to have forgotten much in the way of history.

As for on how history will turn out of the request is accepted.

Well... It's not like that the U.S.A. government can accept the
request even if they wanted to, since in the end, the U.S.A. governmet
too like any other official government is only a tool, but not a tool
of its citizens.

Yet, before, you said the opposite.