On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 3:30:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 1:39:21 PM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 8:19:28 PM UTC-6, Mike Schumann wrote:
The reality is that FLARM is a half baked ADS-B solution. It doesn't display UAT equipped aircraft, nor does it display TIS-B data being transmitted from ADS-B ground stations.

Here we go again ;^)

In a word, bull****. Powerflarm is a fully baked glider-to-glider cooperative anti-collision system (good enough to be mandatory in some countries) that also displays ALL 1090ES ADS-B aircraft (the majority out there, and pretty much all ADS-B equipped fast movers and heavies) and ALL legacy transponder equipped aircraft (but only as range/altitude warnings, unfortunately). Oh, and in the US, if you decide to go UAT for your ADS-B solution, you still have to have a transponder, so guess what - PF will still see you.

PowerFLARM is also available, RIGHT NOW, and comes in a format that integrates easily with glider displays.

What PowerFLARM does not do, and was NEVER designed to so, is give you the free carrot - I mean weather, or TIS-B (pretty much all traffic). And of course, without ADS-B out, ADS-B in will not show you all TIS-B traffic unless you are lucky enough to be near a ADS-B out aircraft.


Then there is the problem of displaying that nice TIS-B info. So now you need an ADS-B compatible GPS source, hook it up to your Trig 22, a dual band ADS-B receiver, and a diplay from the aviation division of Apple, all shoved into your huge glider instrument panel.

Show some pictures when you get that done! Or get a PF and show traffic on your nav display, today.


The reality is that ADS-B is the future. FLARM may be an appropriate solution if you are flying in a contest with other FLARM equipped gliders. If you are flying recreationally, you should be looking at a solution that will reliably display not only other gliders, but all GA aircraft.

So, Mike, show us your cockpit setup with ADS-B in/out. And how much did it cost?


Hopefully, by the end of the year, you will be able to buy an economical GPS source for your TRIG transponder, so you can have ADS-B OUT, which is required to trigger TIS-B from ADS-B ground stations. If you buy a low cost ADS-B receiver (get a dual frequency one), and couple it with an iPhone or iPAD app, and you will be able to see all other ADS-B and transponder equipped aircraft in your area. You will be amazed by how many planes are out there that you never see visually.

"Hopefully"? That's your plan? Pretty weak, dude! I've been flying with my PF for 3 years now seeing traffic no problem, plus having the benefits of the FLARM collision avoidance features when around other similarly equipped gliders. An inexpensive ADS-B out and in solution that would be legal and talk to existing glider displays would be nice to have, but it DOES NOT EXIST TODAY! It's inexcusable that the FAA did not allow a "VFR-ONLY" non-certified portable ADS-B in/out system to be used. Heck, you could probably make one for a few hundred bucks and GIVE them away; if they prevented one mid-air the cost would be covered!

Kirk
66

Thanks for posting, Kirk
Schumann s not a glider pilot and it looks like he never flies in a glider-rich environment or contest. He only seems to be here to stir controversy and malign PF, a real obsession for him. Pavlovs's dogs could not be more predictable, just throw him a bone with PowerFlarm on it and - bam! There he goes. Maybe it's best to ignore him...
Herb, J7

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I have been a glider pilot for many years, flying out of a grass field within the MSP Mode C veil.

I don't fly in contests. For those pilots who do, FLARM may be a good option in those situations.

Where I fly, there are virtually no FLARM (or transponder) equipped gliders.. However, 95% of the power aircraft are transponder equipped. With a proper ADS-B IN/OUT setup, the exact location and altitude all of these aircraft are visible.

For the last ten months, my primary aircraft is a Phoenix Motorglider. It has a full Dynon Skyview system, including 2020 compliant ADS-B IN and OUT, as well as a Mode S transponder. Just to give you some idea of how economical these types of systems are becoming, this system, which incorporates a full engine monitoring setup, radio, intercom, transponder, moving map display with synthetic vision, a two axis autopilot, and ADS-B IN & OUT, costs ~$12K.

Obviously this kind of setup is inappropriate for a typical glider. However, a TRIG transponder coupled with an appropriate GPS source, a dual frequency Stratus ADS-B receiver, and an iPAD or iPhone running an application like Foreflight can provide an economical and very robust ADS-B collision avoidance solution at a reasonable cost and with a power and panel footprint that works in most conventional gliders.

It's too bad that the PowerFlarm guys have their head in the sand and never bothered to implement TIS-B into their product. The reality is that this is a Eurocentric product with a primitive PCAS bolt on to make it marginally palatable for the US market. The fact that it has absolutely no provision for detecting UAT equipped aircraft makes this a dead end product in the US for anyone who wants to reliably see General Aviation or Drone traffic.