On 29 May 2004 17:36:07 GMT, (MLenoch) wrote:

I just saw the History Channel presentation of the Army's 7th Cav. Part of the
segment described the battle at Il Drang, where Col. Moore called Broken Arrow.
The Col. said that the call produced aircraft holding above his position from
5000' to 35,000'.

The "Broken Arrow" call seems unusual in my experience (I've got to
read the book soon, as the movie version might be the source of this.)
The term Broken Arrow is part of a trilogy of terms that were used to
describe mishaps/accidents with nuclear weapons systems. The other two
were Bent Spear and Dull Sword.

I never heard the term used as it was in the movie.

Two Questions: Is that true, were there that many aircraft engaged and
available for him that day?

Probably not. In 1965, the build-up was just starting and there
wouldn't have been a lot of airpower available that quickly. The
carrier force would have been up at Yankee Station to the N. and the
bulk of S. Vietnam aircraft would have been F-100s and what used to be
called COIN aircraft (Counter Insurgency) like A-26, B-57, A-1 and
T-28.

The force in Thailand at that time was prohibited by international
agreement with the Thais from operating in SVN.

Also, if a F-4 was up high in the holding pattern,
would the F-4 aircraft shut down an engine to conserve fuel ?(my friends from
A-37 units would routinely shut down angines if the holds were forecast to be
more than 20 minutes; they had confidence of relighting when needed.)

No, the F-4 didn't use the engine shut-down technique. The A-37 was
AFAIK, the only airplane that did that. The J-85 installation in the
Dragonfly gave it enough power that they could loiter with ordinance
loads on one engine. It wasn't really a function of confidence in
relight so much as excess power availability to carry the load and
maintain maneuver potential.

It's also highly unlikely that any tactical fighter type at the time
could hold at altitudes like FL 350 with ordnance. Certainly not
F-100s. The F-4 with a load of iron would have a tough time much above
FL 280.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8