"SeeAndAvoid" wrote
Try asking for an IFR climb
while providing own obstacle clearance sometime.

What? Be more specific- I see this done correctly every day.

My guess of what he may mean here is this ridiculous
request for a, and I quote, "VMC Climb"

Nope, not at all. What I mean is this:

I have departed VFR under low but legal (say 1500 ft) ceilings, and
call to pick up my IFR clearance. I didn't get it on the ground
because there is no clearance delivery frequency, and doing it by
phone is a pain - and should not be necessary anyway. So I get "Climb
VFR to 2000" only of course I can't because of the 1500 ft ceilings.
So I say "Unable, but I can provide my own obstruction clearance to
2000 on this heading." Sometimes it works as advertised, but
sometimes the controller insists there is no such thing, and either I
accept the VFR climb or I can squawk VFR, but he can't issue me a
clearance below the MIA. Well, I can get ****ed, or I can land and
start over, or I can demand to call the manager, or I can just grit my
teeth and climb.

that so many, mostly
Air Shuttle (Mesa), pilots keep asking for. What they want is a
VFR climb for terrain, but not provide their own separation from
traffic.

Well, that's I want too. I understand I'm below you MIA - I'll
provide my own terrain clearance until I get there. All I want is for
you to spearate me from other IFR traffic while I do. It's in the
book, and it's not unreasonable.

One last point on this IFR climb while providing own terrain
clearance, this guy (Mesa again) didnt like it that I wouldnt
give him approval to do just that the other day. The problem was
he wanted an IFR clearance and provide terrain separation but
wanted an altitude 1,000' BELOW my MIA, and the terrain only
got higher the further he went. He wouldnt accept an OTP
clearance, and sure wouldnt go VFR, and unless someone can
find it somewhere, we cant assign an altitude like that in this
situation.

Well, I encountered this practice in Part 121 while studying for my
ATP written. See, you're making my point for me. Clearly the rules
are too complex - because here's a pilot trying to gain an operational
advantage by doing it like it says in the book - probably because his
copilot just ran into it studying for ATP written - and you've never
heard of it.

I know our MIA's are not readily accesible to pilots,
but he was also below the MEA of a nearby airway, and even
lower than the transition from the VOR to the ILS he was overflying.
Out here in the land of 14'rs, we get it all the time from above
about assigning an altitude below our MIA's, as someone will go
NORDO, go into an area of higher MIA's, and smack. Sometimes
the MIA's are higher than MEA's, sometimes lower.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.

Well, actually the rules for taking advantage of that particular twist
in the regs require that you have at least 5 miles vis, be at least
1000 ft above any bkn/ovc layers, and any layers above you be at least
1000 ft above MEA. So I don't think smacking into terrain is too
likely.

Michael