Jay,

I'm not going to pile on here (really!), but I think Ian has a point.

When I read your missive, I immediately had the same initial reaction as Ian
apparently had. That is, perhaps you were uncomfortable with the conversation
not so much because you were offended, but because it made you suddenly aware of
"unfinished business" in your spiritual life.

I grew up in neither a Catholic nor a "Bible thumper" household. As such, I
don't carry much baggage, for better or for worse. I find some major problems to
the point of corruption with both extremes. When I read the Bible, I find no
mention of a pope/venal sins/mortal sins/purgatory/limbo/private
confessional/etc. Nor do I find it written that it is necessary to attend church
twice on Sunday and again on Wednesday, speak in tongues, claim to be "born
again", or not allowed to drink/gamble/swear/etc. Also, I haven't read anywhere
in the Bible that one cannot lead a moral life or enter the Kingdom (of heaven)
without being a practicing Jew or Christian (not that the word Christian appears
in the Bible that I'm aware of). All of this stuff that one camp or another
places emphasis on is just window dressing. The Bible is written in plain enough
language for one to understand what the point is.

The point is ... The only way to ENSURE that one enters the Kingdom is through
the grace of God, which for Christians is conveyed by belief in Jesus as Savior.
EVERYTHING else is secondary. Now, one can read the Old Testament or the Gospels
and find where the Lord want us to lead what can only be termed a moral life.
Mostly follow the "golden rule" if you distill it right down to dregs. Most all
of us were given free will to make our own decisions. Some of us are evil and
some are not. But we all are sinners and most of us can and should try do
better. But (and I can't quote chapter and verse) one cannot be asssured of
entering the Kingdom though good works alone.

Now most of us have heard that the Lord works in mysterious ways. I believe
that. I have never witnessed any miracles. Never had any "revelations". I don't
aurally hear the Lord speaking to me. Never had a vision. Never spoke in
tongues. I don't see an image of Mother Teresa in baked goods nor Jesus in the
shadow thown by a bug zapper (not that anybody after His time knows what He
looked like). But I find that I am occasionally moved to do something or make a
particular decision by a force that just comes out of nowhere. And every time
that has happend and I "listened", the result has been a blessing to me or to
someone I've helped. I can't igore that this is how the Lord nudges me to do His
work from time to time. My taking time to write this rant is the result of one
of these nudges. I hope it somehow provides a blessing to you or someone else
who might read this. In any case, please consider the possibility that your
encounter and the feelings it rasied a nudge you are getting from Him.

My advice is this: Put aside all the Catholic guilt trip and your reaction to
it. Pick up one of those Gideon King James Bibles you have at the hotel (or
better yet, get a modern translation), and read the Gospels again. After that,
decide one way or another what it's going to be for you. Get your spiritual
house in order - stop sitting on the fence. Once you've done that, you won't
feel so uncomfortable the next time you get suckered into a dialouge with
someone trying to spread whatever message that have.

Disclaimer: I'm not a theologian, preacher, priest, elder, deacon, minister,
pastor, or rabbi. Just a sinner and sheep in His flock.

Required aviation content: The existence of flying machines just points out to
me that the laws of physics are just too complicated and amazing to have been
left to chance.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24

Ian wrote:

Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?

snip!.

Your rejection of the message does not diminish its truth.