On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 4:20:54 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 8:17:06 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 4:40:10 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
So how do you personally feel about trivializing an NMAC with an airliner as "spilt drinks".

The issue _seems_ very much resistance to cost, you keep mentioning it. If Post Mills Soaring Club (PSMC) can develop low cost soaring, that's great. If you can fly safely in areas where transponders don't make sense that is great as well. I hope folks that understand the safety issues are invoked in making those transponder/no-transponder decisions.

Pilots who post such extreme alarming safety related statements on a public forum invite examination of their own safety related behavior, and if they fly with a club, of the operation of that club. I had no idea about PSMC until these post got me giving it a quick look. Straight off the bat I see it is located close between two VORs, and there will be IFR traffic overhead going into Burlington, and the club conduct wave flights, etc.. What percentage of the Post Mills glider Club fleet is transponder equipped? Of the gliders which conduct higher flights in Wave? Does PMSC have local cooperation/procedures with ATC etc? I have no idea, please let us know--that might completely change the impression of your club so far given by one of your members.

Hi Darryl,

Neither of those two guys speak for the club (and neither, for that matter, do I). Both seem to be afflicted with keyboard induced ODD. Neither, in person, seems inclined to trivialize a near accident with hundreds of potential fatalities.

Post Mills is about as podunk as remains in the lower 48. Burlington is a complete non-factor (big rocks East of Burlington might have something to do with this) and fast traffic in/out of Montpelier and Lebanon is modest (I see 'em on PowerFlarm). Transponders would be a complete waste of resources in our club fleet. They would be interrogated only very rarely. Transponders would not be a total waste for our XC guys but I'd personally rather see them spend their money on PowerFlarm first.

Wave soaring with atc implications chiefly occurs at Mt Washington and we have an excellent working relationship with Boston Center that allows us a 10 NM radius window to support our wave camp operations.

As far as potential for conflicts with fast jets, the real risk for us is military. And here, there is no help. They don't use ADS-B, they don't have TCAS. This is a much bigger beef, a much more dangerous trivial attitude, than some smartass on r.a.s.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan, if folks like you are involved in that area I feel much more comfortable that safety risks are understood and managed. I hope glider pilots can evaluate risks and work to reduce them, but the crazy comments about the seriousness of an airliner NMAC just raised immediate concerns.

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You may be way ahead of me here already, but I'll just mention that fighter jets may have IFF interrogators and may be able to see transponder equipped gliders, without being actual TCAS. Not all military jets have IFF interrogators. Military controllers (or Boston center) may be able to see transponder equipped aircraft, at least at higher altitudes and the military pilots may be checking with them for traffic. It may be worth having that discussion with folks to see. In many of the busy California and Great Basin MOAs being transponder equipped is very effective to let military SSR radar see you.

That's a good tip on IFF. We had some guys attend an Air Guard open house a couple of years ago (I wasn't able to make it) and while our pilots met their pilots and our guys learned a few things about their operations (moderately concerning), iirc the conclusion was that we had no ready option to make ourselves visible to each other. It's about time to renew those contacts anyway, so we can ask.

They need to at least be aware of the fact that on nice Summer afternoons there are going to be bunches of gliders on the Whites & Greens and at most ten percent are transponder equipped. I think they get this. It's been a couple of years since I last heard fighter traffic in the Whites on a soarable day.


best,
Evan Ludeman / T8