On Mar 16, 8:42 pm, "GM" wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:32 pm, "Ramy" wrote:



I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

As for 1800skyride.com and similar domains, they are a big scam
targeting all the aviation ride business and causes serious problems
to our ride operators. My club succedded in scaring them away from
offerring rides in our area, hopefully others will follow suit. Check
out the counter sitehttp://www.glidersailplanerides.com/andspread the word.

Ramy

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:

A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my humble opinion, one reason soaring does not appeal to too many
young kids (14 and up) is that the concept of having to work for
something before reaping a benefit becomes more and more alien to
them. The principle of 'instant gratification' is all too common
today. How long does it take to go from zero to solo in a glider? An
entire season? Sit in front of a computer and you can figure out a new
game or even a flight simulator in a few hours.
Also, at least in the US, power rules. In the mind of most youngsters,
if it doesn't go 'wawarooom', it's not worth looking at. You may
impress the chicks by telling them you drive a souped up rice-cooker,
but not by telling them you fly something that doesn't even have an
engine.
Also, look around at your avarage 'glider field USA' and then put
yourself into the shoes of a young kid. Would you want to hang around
with guys/gals 3-5 times your own age? Certainly not! Operations like
Caesar Creek in OH or Harris Hill in NY are the shining exception.
They have very active youth group under great and dedicated
leadership.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Uli Neumann

Uli, you are correct that there must be more than one or two youth to
be involved with to keep it interesting. That's were strategic
planning comes in. In any endeavor, planning saves hugely on the back
end, but more often someone will just leap at implementing something,
without having done appropriate research. It may sound great on the
front end and become a nightmare or a burden on the back end (Tucson
Soaring example, though initially successful, also created unforeseen
issues). Soaring, by its nature, is for the long haul. In club
environments, the benefits and burdens of voluntary club membership
are often poorly expressed and too often controls are substituted for
leadership to gain the involvement of members. Adults are often much
worse in this regard than youth, and adults behaving badly don't
impress youth. Given the chance, youth will impress adults, again and
again.

I think the mystique of flying is somewhat diluted. When I was young,
few of my peers had ever been in an airplane, but we lived close to
significant aviation activity, so our imaginations and dreams of
flying were ever present. Today, a lot of youngsters have jetted
across the country or the oceans. What do they do? Play games, close
the window shades, sleep, or watch movies. Few look out the window to
try and figure out where they are or watch the changing clouds or even
the auroras. A few I've spoken with didn't consider it a particularly
pleasant experience, but a means to get to whatever was at the end of
the flight. Hardly inspiring.

Hang gliding hit a plateau. That community thinks paragliding and
powered paragliding have impacted their growth, with the lower effort
and cost of entry. All of these activities seem to attract quite a
few single people, though there are some places that appear to attract
more family involvement. There seem to be a lot of singles involved
in rock climbing also. I'm always amazed at how much is spent on
snowmobiling each year, but it is largely a family activity.

Your group has a winch. I would imagine you could involve a youth
group on a summer weekday with $8/flights. The Boy Scouts does have
an aviation merit badge and an aviation tour permit. The Girl Scouts
don't permit aviation activities, unless something has changed in the
past year or so.

Frank Whiteley