On 12/16/2005 06:51, three-eight-hotel wrote:

So... having no actual time, under my belt, how would you typically go
out and practice your approaches? Would you file an IFR flight plan to
SAC or MHR and request multiple approaches in the air, or would you
popup out of O61 and contact NORCAL requesting "practice?" approaches
into MHR/SAC?

You can do it either way. The bottom line is that you cannot fly into
IMC (in controlled airspace) without an IFR flight plan and a ATC
clearance. Alternatively, you can depart your airport VFR, then
get the pop-up IFR before you hit IMC at the destination (where you
wish to fly the approach).

As Dave said, it's not "practice" when you're flying in actual IMC, so
don't think of it that way. If you want a pop-up, just call up NorCal
like this:

"NorCal, Cessna XXXX is a C-172/G, XX miles SW of SAC VOR,
heading XXX, and I would like to get an IFR clearance to fly
the ILS runway 2 at Executive, pilot nav, missed as published"

(note that local customs have you call "NorCal, Cessna XXX, Request"
first).


Stupid question, but I've never been completely clear on this... In
the case where you are flying from clear to "over" a fog layer, with
intentions of shooting "practice" approaches at the airports under IMC,
when would you actually be considered in "actual" conditions, and when
would you actually be considered cleared under IFR? I'm thrown off by
the word "practice", and probably because that's all I've ever done?

As Dave said, your confusion is over using the word "practice" when
in actual IMC. They don't go together well. When flying in actual IMC,
you're practicing about as much as the SWA airline pilot is ;-)

One thing I noticed around here, is that when you're practicing
approaches, NorCal will say "Approved for the approach" rather than
"Cleared for the approach". They don't do this every time, but I was
told this was their way of making it clear that they know you're not
on an IFR flight plan.


I've been on a filed IFR flight plan, but have never requested a pop-up
clearance or flown into actual IMC. If you request "practice"
approaches in the described conditions, you will actually be in IMC at
some point, so does your "practice" clearance now grant you the
privileges to fly into IMC?

No. In fact, NorCal will generally remind you to maintain VFR at all
times. However, if the conditions at the field are clearly IMC, they
may "assume" what you want is an IFR clearance. I wouldn't think this
would just work without both sides being clear on what is happening,
so I would expect there to be some confusion.



I'm curious about this, not only for legal reasons, but I'm also
curious as to how you would log your time... At what point can you
start logging "actual"?

Well, go nuts if you want. Generally, I just look back on the flight
and guestimate. If it was a 1.2 hour flight, and I was only in the
clouds during the final approach and initial missed of each approach,
then I might figure I was in IMC for .4 hours - then split my time
accordingly in my log.



Thanks and best regards,
Todd


By the way, I plan to make my first actual instrument approaches (in
IMC) with an instructor. Do you plan to do yours single pilot? Please
don't take this as criticism - I tend to be overly cautious, and I
expect there will be folks who will argue that if you have your rating,
you're qualified to exercise it.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA