"Chris Hoffmann" wrote in message
...

In 1797, in a letter to an American friend, Lord Thomas MacCauley
wrote:


Whoops, better make that 1857.


Yep...you're right.


Blah, blah, blah
The average age of the world's greatest democratic nations has been
200
years.


I'm no expert on the history of world's greatest democratic nations,
but
I
can't name one prior to 1797. Any idea what country(s) exactly this
guy
might be babbling about?

Your knowlege of history is, like...non-existant.

Yeah. Well, thanks for the list of countries anyway. Unless you're
referring
to ancient Greece, or Rome, or India, I believe most modern democracies
have had their origins in the mid 18th century. (Those 3 ancients lasted a
LOT longer than 200 years...) I'd also like to point out that the majority

They evolved INTO democracies...then collapsed. Even Greece and Rome started
as republics, then degenerated into democracies...just like we're doing.

of countries which have reverted to dictatorship after a period of
democracy, have since gone BACK to democracy.

And what is different in their composition since the reverted to democracy?



It may be true that we'd all like a bigger slice of the public
treasury,
but
it's also true that we'd like to not need to contribute so much to it
in
the
first place.

So you AGREE with MacCauley?

What am I supposed to be agreeing with? Most people are capable of
understanding that money doesn't grow on trees.

Capable yes...dealing it with, no.

The trouble is having
representatives who can't or won't tell their constituents that the well
is
dry.

When they do, they get bounced from office.


Or who say that the well is dry when it isn't.
I take issue with his assertion that we're going to vote ourselves into
debt
until we collapse under it. Not that it's untrue, but he doesn't seem to
allow for the idea that people will eventually get wise to what they're
doing TO THEMSELVES.

It allows for it, but tell me an instance when the "addicts" have ever moved
to avert the inevitiable reckoning.

Hopefully before a coup, but sometimes not. When we
taxpayers see the 30-40 percent taken off the top of our paychecks while
our
favorite programs being cut or eliminated due to lack of funds, sooner or
later we will start to wonder what exactly it is our tax dollars are being
used for. But I sure as hell don't think that anyone is going to decide
that
we'd be better off with an authoritarian government.

Why is the solution an authoritarian government. The great welfare states
have been authoritarian.



The federal budget surpluses of the 90's might save Bill
Clinton's legacy,

And who was the "fiscal power" during those surpluses?

The Republicans in the House and Senate. I didn't say it was fair.

And the Repub's only milked the booming tech sectors until the dot.com
"bubble" burst.



while George "D is for Deficit" Bush may follow his
father's economic path to onetermship.

Again, the wisdom of the "people" is apparent, especially the ones who
consistently score in the 10-20% bracket on quizzes regarding economics.

We DO value fiscal responsibility in
this here country, Jack.

And those "deficit's" you just mentioned? How about the Long Term
Liabilities (as opposed to cash/current deficit) that run into the teens
of
TRILLIONS of $$$? How 'bout that, Jack?

I'll worry about that when whoever is supposed to be collecting on it
wants
us to pay up.

Better start, because it's already beginning and it's accellerating over the
next 12-25 years. What it is is government pension funds and retirement
plans for military, civil service, Congress and and several "off budget"
programs.


Anyone who allows a multi trillion dollar debt to acumulate
against them ought to be prepared for a disappointment when they expect
payment due.

Like Social Security?

Perhaps I misunderstood, but while the economy was good and the gov't had
a
surplus, weren't we supposed to have been "paid up" within a decade or so?

One hundred forty years of deficit spending paid up in ten? All based on
five boom years? Get real!

Until Dubya decided to spread the wealth? Yeah...$300 sure bought MY
vote.....Yessir.....

Well, send it back.

We can't spend our way to prosperity anymore than we can tax out way to it.